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Thread: CD Ignition Box or No?

  1. #1

    Question CD Ignition Box or No?

    OK so after much aggravation I have finally figured out my starting issues is due to a faulty coil and, possible failure of MSD. So the question I pose is this. With the Dominator system is the any advantage to running the CDI? Have to obviously get a new coil and, was thinking of sending my Digital 6 in for repair, but was wondering if it was worth the time.

  2. #2
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    Personally, I vote no. I'd install Holley's waste-spark DIS or their Coil-Near-Plug ignition system (LINK). Getting rid of my distributor (cap/rotor/adapter), ignition module, CD ignition box & single coil, was one of the best upgrades I did. No rotor phasing issues and no moving parts or wear items (except spark plugs). I installed a set of NGK Iridium IX spark plugs (for waste-spark DIS use), and I literally haven't touched my ignition system in years. Also, the timing stability is amazing! You'll never use an ignition distributor again; regardless of which type of crank trigger used (36-1/60-2 or an MSD type 4x). The timing stability is just incredible. When I first aimed my timing light on it (Idle Spark control temporarily disabled), for a moment, I thought something was "stuck" because I'm so used to seeing live timing "jitter" at idle. I actually slapped my timing light...LOL!
    https://forums.holley.com/showthread...-great-upgrade! (Distributor vs. DIS/CNP/COP Ignition Timing Difference & Feel)

    FYI: The 556-101 8 cylinder DIS System includes the four waste-spark smart coils and the essential wiring harnesses you'll need. It does not include the trigger wheel, or any crank trigger mounting hardware. The 556-104 is just one replacement coil with a repair connector/terminals if ever needed. The 556-101 has everything you'll need including the 554-117 Hall-Effect crank sensor, if you decide to use Holley's 60-2 crank trigger kit (LINK). If using an MSD Flying Magnet 4x crank trigger kit, it's highly recommended to use Holley's 554-118 Hall-Effect replacement (direct-fit) crank sensor; but then a cam sync sensor will be required for TDC reference (DIS). So if you already have an MSD Flying Magnet crank trigger kit installed, I'd keep it.
    http://www.masterenginetuner.com/top...all-fails.html (Crank Reference Angle Importance)

    A missing teeth type crank trigger (12-1, 24-1, 36-1, 60-2) has more resolution and better timing accuracy than a 4x
    type, but it's not necessary for most users. Either type of crank trigger (4x or missing teeth type) should work fine.
    Numerically high count trigger wheels (such as 60-2) usually don't work well on high revving RPM engines.
    Also, it should also be noted that if your engine's horsepower/torque is high enough to "flex" the crankshaft,
    then the 60-2 crank trigger can not be used (due to the sensor's tight air gap being altered out of range).
    If the engine can flex the crankshaft or spins super high RPM, the 4x crank trigger should be used (with Holley's 554-118 Hall-Effect crank sensor).

    What's left of your distributor, will be an oil pump drive and a single pulse (1x) cam sync sensor if you decide on sequential injection. This involves removing 7 of the 8 reluctor teeth, locking-out the timing advance mechanism, and fabricating a cover for the eliminated adapter, cap & rotor. You can use a Hall-Effect "geartooth" type sensor (LINK) with the distributor's reluctor; no magnet installation. And with DIS, it doesn't matter which seven of the eight reluctor teeth are removed (cam sync), because there's no longer a #1 cap terminal relationship (360° adjustability). Holley's DIS System is awesome, regardless if you're using it with their 36-1/60-2 crank trigger or an MSD type 4x crank trigger. The only caveat, is a 4x type crank trigger (as opposed to a missing tooth type trigger wheel), must have a cam sync sensor.
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....al-EFI-Upgrade (My DIS & Sequential EFI Conversion)
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....nk-Trigger-Kit (My Custom 60-2 Crank Trigger Kit)
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....old-Conversion (My MPFI Intake Manifold Conversion)

    The 60-2 crank trigger kit wasn't too expensive for me. I fabricated my own crank trigger kit (Cherry GS100102 Hall-Effect sensor $40, 60-2 trigger wheel $60), converted my previous distributor to a cam sync unit (free), and purchased Holley's 556-101 DIS Kit ($520 at the time). I did this because my old Jacobs Electronics Pro Street CD ignition box was intermittently failing (hot), and I wanted to eliminate it (CDI box, single coil, distributor & ignition module) with something better & more reliable. It's why I finally converted to a distributorless ignition system. Replacing the CD ignition box & coil, would've cost almost as much as Holley's DIS kit, and I'd still have wear items. I'm glad I thought that out, before rushing to purchase a replacement CDI box & coil. Once you go distributorless, you'll never use a distributor again! Holley EFI now has 36-1 crank trigger kits for SBC/BBC & SBF engines (LINK).

    In reference to shimming accessory belt driven components forward: Water pump pulley flange shims are commonly available.
    The easy way to shim the other accessory belt driven components: Purchase (LINK/LINK) or fabricate thick aluminum washers.
    I've made them with aluminum flat bar, using a 1" hole saw, then enlarge/drill the I.D. hole you need (usually 3/8" or 7/16" I.D.).
    The aluminum flat stock material is easy to drill/cut through, and is available at the local hardware store. Perfect round washers!
    Use 1/8" (.125") shim washers to shim the belt driven accessory brackets forward, if installing Holley's 60-2 crank trigger kit.
    Use 1/4" (.250") shim washers to shim the belt driven accessory brackets forward, if installing Holley's 36-1 crank trigger kit.
    Use 3/8" (.375") shim washers to shim the belt driven accessory brackets forward, for an MSD Flying Magnet crank trigger kit.
    Some custom built crank trigger kits don't require shimming accessory belt driven components. My two examples:
    BBF http://forums.holley.com/showthread....nk-Trigger-Kit (Custom 60-2 Crank Trigger Kit)
    SBF https://forums.holley.com/showthread...464#post100464 (Scroll down to NOTE #4.)

    Holley EFI Crank & Cam Sensor Notes:
    So we're clear, you can't use the Holley 554-118 crank sensor on a missing tooth type trigger wheel.
    Only the MSD Flying Magnet type 6x, 5x, 4x, 3x, 2x crank trigger kits will accept the Holley 554-118 crank sensor.
    The Holley 554-118 Hall-Effect crank sensor is for a 6x, 5x, 4x, 3x & 2x magnetic type trigger wheels (LINK - Figure 1).
    The Holley 554-118 crank sensor is only used with a magnetic trigger wheel; it will not detect a ferrous steel target.

    The Holley 554-127 Hall-Effect crank/cam sensor (magnetic bolt included) is for a magnetic target type trigger wheel.
    The Holley 554-127 crank/cam sensor is only used with a magnetic trigger wheel; it will not detect a ferrous steel target.

    The Holley 554-125 Hall-Effect crank/cam sensor (magnetic bolt not included) is for a magnetic target type trigger wheel.
    The Holley 554-125 crank/cam sensor is only used with a magnetic trigger wheel; it will not detect a ferrous steel target.

    The Holley 554-124 Hall-Effect crank/cam sensor is for a missing teeth type trigger wheel (12-1, 24-1, 36-1, 60-2, etc.).
    The Holley 554-124 crank/cam sensor is only used with a ferrous steel trigger wheel; it will not detect spinning magnets.

    The Holley 554-117 Hall-Effect crank/cam sensor is for a missing teeth type trigger wheel (12-1, 24-1, 36-1, 60-2, etc.).
    The Holley 554-117 crank/cam sensor is only used with a ferrous steel trigger wheel; it will not detect spinning magnets.

    Originally Posted by Danny Cabral
    FYI: Holley EFI now sells their own Dual Sync Hall-Effect distributors (LINK).
    They're a small cap design, "plug & play" with Holley EFI, and no need for a modified Firing Order.
    The crank & cam sensor signals also provide sequential injection capability (MPFI applications).
    It's "plug & play" (into the 10-pin ignition connector on the EFI Main Harness) and requires a CD
    ignition box (Instructions). The MSD 6201 Digital 6A CDI box & 8253 HVC-2 coil are a great match.
    The MSD CD ignition box is wired as shown in the Holley EFI Wiring Manual:
    http://documents.holley.com/techlibr...10555rev17.pdf (Holley EFI Wiring Manual - Figure 11, Page 20)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AM7r-DauCak (Holley EFI Dual Sync Distributor - YouTube Tech Video)
    A blank cap (LINK) is available, if the user decides to convert to Coil-Near-Plug/DIS later (no CDI box).
    Of course, this component can also be used as a crank and/or cam sync/oil pump drive unit.

    The Custom Ignition Parameters (in System Parameters) for the Holley EFI Dual Sync Distributor:
    Ignition Type ............. ― "Custom"
    Crank Sensor Type ..... ― "1 Pulse/Fire"
    Sensor Type .............. ― "Digital Falling"
    Inductive Delay .......... ― "100.0 usec" ( Synchronization info, adjusted per application.)
    Ignition Reference Angle ― "50°" ( Inherent rotor-phasing of this unit.)
    Cam Sensor Type ........ ― "Single Pulse" ( "Not Used" for TBI, unless CNP ignition.)
    Sensor Type .............. ― "Digital Falling"
    Output Setup Type ..... ― "Points Output" ( CDI box ground trigger.)
    Dwell Time ................. ― "2.0 msec" ( Do not set this to 1.5 msec!)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

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