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Thread: Big Issues with 454 BBC detonation with Holley HP.

  1. #1

    Default Big Issues with 454 BBC detonation with Holley HP.

    Hi Guys. Long time since posting, but always reading them. In short, I have detonation issues, to the point that I have to pull some slugs and replace and check rod bearings. As you readers would be aware, that doesn't fix the problem of what's causing it in the first place. Some background: I have two 454 BBC engines in a boat. I originally rebuilt them, and used the same Mercruiser ECUs. Then when I wasn't happy with the results with the Mercruser ECUs I pulled them again and pulled them down and did another bearing change (all of), but reused the pistons as they where in good condition, they had only been in for 12 months. (Only 100 hours.)
    So here's the thing when pulling down the 2nd time, I noticed the pistons were in really good nick. Those engines were set at 8° BTDC. (No detonation.) When we put them together the second time reusing pistons, the difference now is Holley HP ECUs, Cam sync plugs, Crank sensors and Coil-Near-Plug (smart coils). The guy who programmed them set them at 15° BTDC. Running on stand seemed fine. As soon as they where back in boat to do run in, we ran them under load for approximately an hour. Again everything seemed OK. Plugs, temperature, AFR, oil pressure, etc.
    First run for approximately 5-10 minutes up at 3500 RPM I didn't notice anything until we started blowing some smoke? We crawled home. I ripped down one engine and took head off and there! #4 and #8 has bad Detonation, so much so that the edges of the valve relief on each piston are melted. Bore (at this stage looks OK). Heads in those chambers had a small amount of metal/carbon build up that scraped off.
    Is this due to the initial advanced setting? Or advanced degrees at 3500 RPM is way out? (I don't know) and the guy who set them up is now saying "nothing to do with him". Anyway I just need to sort out and learn for myself. Anyone got any thoughts here? Can I upload my Global File for someone to look at to see if there are settings that are wrong. Also the Injectors were done before engines went back together.
    Also have 46 PSI to fuel rail (this is not a high performance boat, I just like the technology and want engines that just do as they should). Also I never go over 4000 RPM. Any help/advice would be awesome, Cheers Aaron.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    31,121

    Default

    The Base Timing Table is probably programmed correctly in Global File. I suspect the ignition timing synchronization was never performed properly: https://forums.holley.com/showthread...087#post255087 (Ignition Timing Synchronization - A Two Step Process)

    Forum members will want to see your Global File and a datalog of this occurrence. This is a copy & paste from one of my other posts:
    Originally Posted by Danny Cabral
    For further assistance, post your Global File and a short datalog of this occurrence for us to analyze.
    Also, review the datalog and inform us of exactly where in the datalog (time/seconds) the problem occurs.
    Datalog & Global Files must be linked to a document hosting website. I use Dropbox.com.
    Files can also be "zipped" (compressed zipped folder) & attached directly to a forum post ("Go Advanced" & "Attachments").
    Your Global File is in the "Documents", "Holley", "HEFI V5", "Global Files" folder (.hefi file).
    Your Datalogs are in the "Documents", "Holley", "HEFI V5", "Datalogs" folder (.V5.dl file).
    Someone will analyze/troubleshoot the problem & offer advice. Also, ensure all this is right:
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....ents-Read-This (Initial Checks & Adjustments - Read Steps #1-#6!)
    https://documents.holley.com/199r10751rev1.pdf (Holley EFI 553-108 3.5" TSLCD - Download GCF From ECU To SD Card, Page 31)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385"/6.3L SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, forged steel crank & rods, forged pistons, Trick Flow T/W 11R 205 CNC comp ported heads, 12:1 comp ratio, 232°-244° duration/.623" lift/114° LSA camshaft, TFS R-Series FTI comp ported intake, BBK 80mm T/B, Holley Dominator MPFI & DIS, Holley 36-1 crank trigger, MSD 1x cam sync, PA PMGR starter, PA 200A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, R134a A/C, Spal dual 12" fans, Frostbite 3-core aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust, off-road X-pipe, shorty headers, Earl's -6AN fuel system plumbing, Walbro 255 LPH in-tank pump & Pro-M -6AN hanger, S&W subframe connectors, BMR upper & lower torque box reinforcements, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD, 3000 RPM C6 converter, B&M Hammer shifter, Stifflers transmission crossmember & driveshaft safety loop, FPP aluminum driveshaft, FPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 M/T Street Comp tires.

  3. #3

    Default

    Upload the tune and a datalog if you have one.
    I've only tuned a couple stock PCMs with 454s so I don't recall what kinda timing they liked. But 8° sounds pretty low?
    When you get the engines back together it might be a good idea to fine a engine dyno to see what they like with HP/TQ numbers and be able to read the spark plugs between pulls.

  4. #4

    Default

    Thanks Danny, I agree with your input. When I watched a Holley YouTube video on it by (KV) I don't believe that this is what was done. So I'll make sure this is sorted.
    Thanks RDF1. Yes, did try originally, I'm in OZ and over here most dynos are drive on types, and seems that anyone who has a engine stand style dyno aren't interested in your engine unless they built it.
    No datalog as far as I know, but I can definitely post the Global File, which I'll shortly.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
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    Ont. Canada
    Posts
    2,008

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    Did you have knock sensors on it? If not, you should have them. With the quality of pump gas I wouldn't be without them.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    31,121

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    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385"/6.3L SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, forged steel crank & rods, forged pistons, Trick Flow T/W 11R 205 CNC comp ported heads, 12:1 comp ratio, 232°-244° duration/.623" lift/114° LSA camshaft, TFS R-Series FTI comp ported intake, BBK 80mm T/B, Holley Dominator MPFI & DIS, Holley 36-1 crank trigger, MSD 1x cam sync, PA PMGR starter, PA 200A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, R134a A/C, Spal dual 12" fans, Frostbite 3-core aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust, off-road X-pipe, shorty headers, Earl's -6AN fuel system plumbing, Walbro 255 LPH in-tank pump & Pro-M -6AN hanger, S&W subframe connectors, BMR upper & lower torque box reinforcements, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD, 3000 RPM C6 converter, B&M Hammer shifter, Stifflers transmission crossmember & driveshaft safety loop, FPP aluminum driveshaft, FPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 M/T Street Comp tires.

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Waterlife View Post
    Thanks Danny, I agree with your input. When I watched a Holley YouTube video on it by (KV) I don't believe that this is what was done. So I'll make sure this is sorted.
    Thanks RDF1. Yes, did try originally, I'm in OZ and over here most dynos are drive on types, and seems that anyone who has a engine stand style dyno aren't interested in your engine unless they built it.
    No datalog as far as I know, but I can definitely post the Global File, which I'll shortly.
    Ah, OK. Yeah, that could be tricky then. If all else fails you could start back at 8° after confirming the Timing with timing light and Static Timing test.
    If Static Timing test is confirmed, then use the first tune and have to read the spark plugs to see how the timing mark on the strap looks.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Ont. Canada
    Posts
    2,008

    Default

    Also, a boat running at 3500 RPM is going to be under a lot more load than a car running down the highway at 3500 RPM. The timing & fuel needs are going to be a lot different between the two.

  9. #9

    Default

    Hi again. I've attached my Global file, hope it works! I'm pretty sure that I stuffed up the Timing Sync/Static Timing setup, but maybe someone will see something else that not right. Other than what (the Holley guy did) I've only done IAC resets and key on/off stuff while setting my TPS, etc. Everything else should what was originally set by "the guy". But who knows, I may have stuffed up somewhere else without even knowing, like the Static Timing stuff. Anyway appreciate someone having a look for me and any suggestions are greatly appreciated. Aaronsbasecal454Marineportside.zip (8.5 KB)
    Attached Files Attached Files

  10. #10

    Default

    Hi Guys. Any chance someone can help out with the above attached Base Calibration to check if all looks OK? Thank you.

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