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  1. #1

    Default Dual Sync Questions

    Hey guys new to here/new to EFI. First, I have a Terminator X 4150 TBI system with a Dual Sync distributor on 318 Chrysler in a Dart. I called Holley and they said to select the Sniper HyperSpark on the initial startup. Kinda confused on that seeing it’s the Dual Sync setup. It was running like complete crap spitting and popping through throttle body and exhaust after 1500 RPM. Had my buddy over with the laptop adjusting things and still had a spit & pop. Engine was really lazy and getting hot. I did my own investigation and did the Cranking Timing setting. It was not set correctly according to the timing light. Cranking value is set at 15° according to ECU so I turned the distributor till my timing light said 15° while cranking on balancer. It started back up a different car!
    Now it idles and a bit more responsive throttle with no pop. The handheld doesn’t match the timing light while idling though. I’m not sure if he has something turned off in there just to get it to run from before, but I need to make sure timing is accurate before we tune on it. I don’t want to tune over a hidden issue.
    So in conclusion how do I get the handheld to match what’s on the balancer? How come Holley wants me to select HyperSpark instead of the Dual Sync distributor which is what I’m running? Thanks guys.

  2. #2

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    Unless you enable the Static Timing Set check through the handheld or a laptop, the timing at idle is going to jump around, because that's how the ECU maintains a stable idle.

    The reason you can select the HyperSpark is that with a TBI system, you do not need the cam sensor. Enabling the cam sensor only leads to slightly longer cranking time at startup. Andrew

  3. #3

    Default

    Thank you! I’ll check it out.

  4. #4
    Join Date
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    The Idle Spark control (in the Idle ICF) varies the ignition timing to help stabilize the idle RPM. It can be temporarily disabled (Idle ICF) when viewing the idle timing with a timing light. Yes, it improves the idle quality. See "Idle Spark", page 16: https://documents.holley.com/techlibrary_199r11761.pdf (Terminator X Handheld Tuning & Reference Manual)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS T/W 11R 205 heads, 232°-244° duration/.623" lift/114° LSA camshaft, 12:1 C/R, TFS R-Series FTI ported intake, BBK 80mm T/B, Holley Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger, 1x cam sync, 200A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, R134a A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans, Frostbite 3-core aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust, off-road X-pipe, shorty headers, -6AN fuel system plumbing, Walbro 255 LPH pump, S&W subframe connectors, BMR upper & lower torque box reinforcements, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD, 3000 RPM converter, B&M Hammer shifter, Stifflers trans crossmember & driveshaft safety loop, FPP aluminum driveshaft, FPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 M/T Street Comp tires.

  5. #5

    Default

    Okay a little update. I was able to get a new timing light with a dial. Can’t see timing mark under water pump on a SBM. Anyways, there’s a timing curve put into the tune up. Idles about 20° ish, cruise is about 26° and wide open is 32° ish. Now when I’m checking with timing light I’ll rev the engine to about 2000, and the handheld will say 26°. Timing light is saying only 17°. Spun the engine up to about 4000 which should be about 30° on the handheld and it’s still reading 17°. I’m two seconds away from putting a Chrysler ignition back on the thing. Holley said to mess with Inductive Delay and there was no change. How can I verify with my timing light manually that it’s doing what it’s supposed to? My friend that did the tune up put in a value of 26° Static Timing. My handheld says 1 and the timing values on the handheld are Not Available it says. Only thing I’ve done myself is adjust distributor while cranking to match 15° like the instructions said. Highly doubt the timing is advancing like it should, the car doesn’t pull like it should. Please help, LOL.
    Last edited by SlantedDart; 07-11-2021 at 07:39 PM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
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    Connecticut
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SlantedDart View Post
    ...and the timing values on the handheld are Not Available it says.
    If you use the full "2D Table" type (which is preferred), then leave it that way. That's why the three "Simple" settings aren't available. (Same with the ignition timing & Target AFR.)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS T/W 11R 205 heads, 232°-244° duration/.623" lift/114° LSA camshaft, 12:1 C/R, TFS R-Series FTI ported intake, BBK 80mm T/B, Holley Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger, 1x cam sync, 200A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, R134a A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans, Frostbite 3-core aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust, off-road X-pipe, shorty headers, -6AN fuel system plumbing, Walbro 255 LPH pump, S&W subframe connectors, BMR upper & lower torque box reinforcements, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD, 3000 RPM converter, B&M Hammer shifter, Stifflers trans crossmember & driveshaft safety loop, FPP aluminum driveshaft, FPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 M/T Street Comp tires.

  7. #7

    Default

    Okay I’ll check that out, thanks. Any advice on the rest of the issues?
    Also wanted to add that while tuning live, it was glitching & freezing up. Any ideas what would be causing that? I’ve heard non-resistor style plugs need to be used, which I have.

  8. #8

    Default

    The Dual Sync distributor as does the HyperSpark requires timing synchronization. What you're seeing is normal because you haven't set the Inductive Delay. 100 usec is the default setting. Since your timing is dropping as you increase RPM you need to increase the Inductive Delay. I'd try a setting of 200 to see if that gets you close. Take a look at the HyperSpark installation video on YouTube and it'll show you the steps on the handheld. As an example, on my Ford FE Dual Sync, my Inductive Delay is 325 and the timing is rock steady all the way up in RPM.

    When you get that sorted out, you can then setup a custom distributor to turn off the cam sensor. I think it works better than using HyperSpark settings. Post again when you're ready to go through these steps. Mine now starts noticeably faster without the cam signal.

  9. #9
    Join Date
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    Default

    Ignition Timing Synchronization is an easy two step process using a timing light.
    Ensure the ignition timing is fully synchronized. At idle (lock the distributor), and at higher RPM (Inductive Delay).
    https://forums.holley.com/showthread...ing-Holley-EFI (Ignition Timing Synchronization - A Two Step Process)
    ↑ Troubleshooting & synchronization verification information at the end of post #1.

    Read step #2 "Inductive Delay": http://forums.holley.com/showthread....ing-Holley-EFI (Ignition Timing Synchronization)
    Originally Posted by Danny Cabral
    • Just to recap - Synchronizing the EFI timing (laptop) with the engine timing (timing light):
    NOTE: Temporarily disable the "Idle Spark" control (in Idle Settings).
    1)
    Turn the distributor or adjust the crank trigger to synchronize the initial (idle) timing, then lock it down.
    Next, ensure timing is synchronized at higher RPM using the EFI software.
    NOTE: Now use the EFI software "Enable Static Timing Set". I use a static timing value of 25° or 30°.
    2)
    Momentarily rev the engine, and watch the timing advance with your timing light. It shouldn't move.
    If timing advances or retards, adjust the "Inductive Delay" until the timing maintains itself.
    If the ignition timing retards, increase this value. If the timing advances, decrease this value.

    SUMMARY: The initial (idle) timing is synchronized by turning the distributor or adjusting the crank trigger, and locking it down. The timing
    at higher RPM is synchronized by adjusting the Inductive Delay in the EFI software. The first synchronization is physical, and the second
    synchronization is electronic (Inductive Delay). Believe the timing light above all else, it's always the real timing (if there's a discrepancy).
    When finished, the timing as viewed on the laptop, should match what you see with the timing light, at all RPM.
    Once the ignition timing is fully synchronized, the Timing Table can be tuned for each application.

    FYI: "Your Crank Sensor "Inductive Delay" value is greater than 50. This typically will result in over
    advanced ignition timing at high RPM with a Hall-Effect sensor. Make sure this value is correct."

    That's actually not what this warning message means.
    It means if left unsynchronized, the timing can advance beyond what the Timing Table specifies.
    That's just a warning message to ensure you synchronize the timing at higher RPM (Inductive Delay).
    After synchronizing the timing, ignore that warning message and never adjust the Inductive Delay again.
    With the Holley EFI software, you have the option to disable this warning message in Toolbox, Preferences.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS T/W 11R 205 heads, 232°-244° duration/.623" lift/114° LSA camshaft, 12:1 C/R, TFS R-Series FTI ported intake, BBK 80mm T/B, Holley Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger, 1x cam sync, 200A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, R134a A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans, Frostbite 3-core aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust, off-road X-pipe, shorty headers, -6AN fuel system plumbing, Walbro 255 LPH pump, S&W subframe connectors, BMR upper & lower torque box reinforcements, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD, 3000 RPM converter, B&M Hammer shifter, Stifflers trans crossmember & driveshaft safety loop, FPP aluminum driveshaft, FPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 M/T Street Comp tires.

  10. #10

    Default

    Thanks guys. Today I was able to get my friend on it with his laptop. We switch it from the HyperSpark to Dual Sync distributor in the ignition setup. He changed the Ignition Reference Angle. Now with the timing light it reflects the handheld. I know that I did the Static Timing Set right at 15°, and locked it down so it should be right or at least pretty close according to my timing light?

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