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Thread: Running A 144 "Dry"

  1. #1
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    Default Running A 144 "Dry"

    I have the following question:
    Can I run a 144 on a multi-port intake without problems?
    Or should I place an extra injector(s) on top for cooling.
    The engine, a SBC, is going to be used on the street only, not for daily use but more as show car.
    Gertjan

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gertjan View Post
    Or should I place an extra injector(s) on top for cooling.
    I don't think so. I'm a Diesel Technician by profession, and we used to run Detroit Diesel 6V92 bus engines that have Roots blowers (positive displacement superchargers), fed by turbochargers bolted on top! The entire induction system is dry, because direct-injection places the fuel injectors in the cylinder head's combustion chamber. Furthermore, these high mileage, over-the-road engines are water intercooled after (under) the blower.

    Modern day (OEM) blowers/screw type superchargers are multi-port fuel injected. Gasoline certainly isn't a lubricant, and the blower rotors don't contact each other anyway. (The gears & bearings are isolated/sealed in oil, in the end cases.) As far as cooling is concerned, a Roots blower does not compress the air inside the supercharger case. It's just an air pump. The compression of the inlet charge takes place in the manifold, intake ports and cylinders. Centrifugal & screw type superchargers are called "internal compression" superchargers because the air compression takes place inside the supercharger. Roots superchargers are "external compression" blowers because the air compression takes place outside of the supercharger.

    TBI (Throttle Body Injection) works excellent on top of superchargers (Roots blowers & screw type) because the boosted air/fuel charge improves the cylinder-to-cylinder air & fuel distribution. The fuel also helps to "wet seal" the rotors, and therefore, a "dry" blower would need to be spun slightly faster to achieve the same boost as a "wet" blower. So draw your own conclusions, as to what's better suited for your engine.

    http://www.holley.com/data/TechServi...ech%20Info.pdf (Weiand Supercharger Tech)
    http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/page.php?id=749 (Additional Information)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.

    '78 BRONCO: 508" stroker, TFS heads, 11:1 comp ratio, Dominator MPFI & DIS, cold air induction, Spal dual 12" fans/aluminum radiator, dual 3" exhaust/Magnaflow mufflers, Moroso vacuum pump, Accusump, engine oil & trans fluid coolers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, A/C, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2500 RPM converter, 3:1 Atlas II, modified Dana 44/60-lockers-4.10s, hydroboost/4-disc brakes, ram-assist/heim joint steering, Cage long radius arms, traction bars, 4" Skyjacker lift, 35" mud tires

  3. #3
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    Hi Danny, I've cleared a few questions I had now. What would you advise me in my case:
    I want an EFI system that can manage my A/F ratio on both side of the engine and correct
    them independently if necessary, so 1 Lambda sensor in each exhaust (427 Cobra with side pipes).

    "Wet seal" of the rotors sounds logical, maybe also an option to program if possible with the ECU. I already have the Holley TB 112-577.
    Should I go for the HP, or play save and maybe for some changes (wet seal injectors) in the future go for the Dominator ECU. Regards, Gertjan
    Last edited by Gertjan; 12-21-2012 at 07:48 AM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gertjan View Post
    I want an EFI system that can manage my A/F ratio on both side of the engine and correct
    them independently if necessary, so 1 Lambda sensor in each exhaust (427 Cobra with side pipes).
    Holley EFI & other aftermarket EFI systems, have dual wideband O2 sensors, but don't run Closed Loop independently on each bank.
    With the Holley Dominator ECU, you can select "Average", "Left Only", "Right Only", "Leanest" or "Richest" (dual WBO2 sensors).

    "Wet seal" of the rotors sounds logical, maybe also an option to program if possible with the ECU.
    I would not run multi-port injection with additional injectors on top. Use MPI or TBI, not both.
    I would just run a Holley TBI system. I think you're overemphasizing the "wet seal" aspect of this.
    Also, I don't understand how you intend to physically fit fuel injectors & fuel rails on a Weiand 144 supercharger?

    Should I go for the HP, or play save and maybe for some changes (wet seal injectors) in the future go for the Dominator ECU.
    If you want to run dual wideband O2 sensors with your Holley EFI, the Dominator ECU is your only option.
    The Avenger & HP ECUs aren't capable of dual WBO2 sensors: https://www.holley.com/document/tech...useanddiff.pdf
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.

    '78 BRONCO: 508" stroker, TFS heads, 11:1 comp ratio, Dominator MPFI & DIS, cold air induction, Spal dual 12" fans/aluminum radiator, dual 3" exhaust/Magnaflow mufflers, Moroso vacuum pump, Accusump, engine oil & trans fluid coolers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, A/C, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2500 RPM converter, 3:1 Atlas II, modified Dana 44/60-lockers-4.10s, hydroboost/4-disc brakes, ram-assist/heim joint steering, Cage long radius arms, traction bars, 4" Skyjacker lift, 35" mud tires

  5. #5
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    Conversion of the manifold was a very accurate job, which I did on a milling machine.
    All the injectors are at exact the same angle & height, although not at 90°.
    The reason I chose multi-point, was I have seen some tests that showed that with
    carburetion/TBI the delivery to the cylinders was not equal, which clearly showed on the Lambda readout.
    With MPI, I tackled that problem, I think, especially if you can give each injector its own offset.

    So Dominator is the way to go. Cheers, Gertjan
    Last edited by Gertjan; 12-22-2012 at 12:29 PM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gertjan View Post
    Conversion of the manifold was a very accurate job, which I did on a milling machine.
    All the injectors are at exact the same angle and hight, although not at 90°.
    Would you please post pictures (or a webpage link) of this MPI conversion? I'm interested in seeing it.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.

    '78 BRONCO: 508" stroker, TFS heads, 11:1 comp ratio, Dominator MPFI & DIS, cold air induction, Spal dual 12" fans/aluminum radiator, dual 3" exhaust/Magnaflow mufflers, Moroso vacuum pump, Accusump, engine oil & trans fluid coolers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, A/C, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2500 RPM converter, 3:1 Atlas II, modified Dana 44/60-lockers-4.10s, hydroboost/4-disc brakes, ram-assist/heim joint steering, Cage long radius arms, traction bars, 4" Skyjacker lift, 35" mud tires

  7. #7
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    As soon as I get it back from the polisher, I will post some pictures.

  8. #8
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    Pictures posted in my album: Cobra Build
    http://forums.holley.com/album.php?albumid=32

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gertjan View Post
    Pictures posted in my album: Cobra Build
    http://forums.holley.com/album.php?albumid=32
    Wow, very nice work! I like it. Keep us updated on this project.

    Magnifying screen: hold "Ctrl" key & press "+" key.
    Restore: Firefox - hold "Ctrl" key & press "0".
    Restore: Internet Explorer - hold "Ctrl" key & press "".
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.

    '78 BRONCO: 508" stroker, TFS heads, 11:1 comp ratio, Dominator MPFI & DIS, cold air induction, Spal dual 12" fans/aluminum radiator, dual 3" exhaust/Magnaflow mufflers, Moroso vacuum pump, Accusump, engine oil & trans fluid coolers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, A/C, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2500 RPM converter, 3:1 Atlas II, modified Dana 44/60-lockers-4.10s, hydroboost/4-disc brakes, ram-assist/heim joint steering, Cage long radius arms, traction bars, 4" Skyjacker lift, 35" mud tires

  10. #10
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    I'm glad you like it.

    Some more pictures from my project (in my album).
    Optioned for the short-nose drive to keep things compact.
    I hated the look of the bolt-on pulley, only thing to do was making some spacers and a new alternator bracket.
    Compact looks better I think.
    Still waiting for the headers.
    I went for the Dominator ECU and now I'm also thinking of adding NOS on it.
    Not that I need it but it looks cool.

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