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Thread: LS with 4L80E - Questions ahead of diving in.

  1. #1

    Default LS with 4L80E - Questions ahead of diving in.

    Hi everyone. Quickest background possible - I'm having a fairly obnoxious drivetrain built. Low target of 800+ HP and torque. Now here's where it get silly - the guy doing most of the work is a skilled builder, tuner and racer (his Grand National is awesome). I, however, am an amateur, so he wanted to find a way to have the PCM use MAF for idle/non-boost stuff, and have the 3 bar MAP sensor for the rest.

    According to him, when building engines with really high power like this, going Speed Density only means having to tweak your VE tables throughout the year, to compensate for ambient air temps. To point, his Grand National (which is over 1K in HP/Torque) would startup like a champ in the summer, but he was tuning it this past weekend while I was there, because the ambient air temps have dropped considerably, and that was making his car hesitant to start, and sputtering out until it warmed up. He wants to set mine up to be as turn-key as possible, so I don't have to mess with it. Which I appreciate. He is experienced in using the Holley Terminator, the Dominator, and XFI stuff.

    Okay! Now that you have all those details. I've been reading threads here to make sure that I make his life as easy as possible.

    Side note: Big thanks to Danny Cabral, you're obviously a subject matter expert on the Terminator, and I really appreciate all the concise & straightforward answers and info you've put together. I've been picking through the documents linked in you info/instructions post.

    This is where either I missed something, or didn't understand, and hence the thread. There was someplace I read about making sure the fuel system was compatible. I've tried searching to find out what those prerequisites are with very little luck. I thought it'd be easier to post what I've planned for with the fuel system, and I hope you all can tell me if this will be okay, and if there are any other "gotchas" I should be ready for special adapters, sensors (I'm going to use the Holley recommended GM MAP sensor for the 3 bar), what not.

    I'll be going with the Holley Terminator Max 550-919T.

    So here's what I've picked out/got for fuel:
    • 1500cc EV6 high impedance injectors
    • -8 AN Fuel rails
    • -10 AN fuel lines
    • GM Flex Fuel sensor (so we can run E85 at the track, and premium gas with the boost turned down the rest of the time, along with any mix in between. Better than going E85 only and not finding a station that carries it!)
    • FueLab pre-pump fuel filter (75 micron)
    • FueLab 795 LPH/210 GPH variable fuel pump (really nice because their fuel pressure regulator can slow the pump down when demand isn't needed) part #42401-1.
    • FueLab after pump filter, 6 microns.
    • FueLab fuel pressure regulator, part #52902-1.

    Any input appreciated! Thanks all.

  2. #2

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    MAF is not possible. It just isn't supported with the Holley EFI. Also, I don't intend to offend, but I've seen many tunes done by "excellent tuners" and they almost never configure the Air Temperature Enrichment Fuel Modifier correctly. This parameter plays an essential part in the fueling calculation and not having it configured properly will result in poor fueling as temperature changes.

    A properly setup tune, using VE% based fueling strategy will handle all of the atmospheric changes without issues. Andrew

  3. #3

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    Thanks Andrew. Well, I'll likely be moving forward with the Terminator anyway. I sold my unopened HP Tuners Pro over the weekend at a small loss. I'm not going to jump back into that when there's likely a lot more that we can do with the Holley setup.

    Anything else I should make sure we take into consideration? Any other potential face-palm moments, where we should make sure we have the right adapters or sensors or whatnot? Thanks again!

  4. #4

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    You never said what kind of car this will be going into, but I find that many headaches can be avoided by making sure that the wiring is in good working order. I wrote the following for Sniper installs, but almost everything is directly applicable to a Terminator X installation:
    https://forums.holley.com/showthread...ey-EFI-systems Andrew

  5. #5

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    Thanks Andrew! The wiring harness for everything the drivetrain will be freshly built, so no worries there. Does the Terminator have an input for the ambient air temp as well as the air manifold/intake air sensor (or I'm used to calling the air charge temp)?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
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    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS T/W 11R 205 heads, 232°-244° duration/.623" lift/114° LSA camshaft, 12:1 C/R, TFS R-Series FTI ported intake, BBK 80mm T/B, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 200A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, -6AN fuel system plumbing, Walbro 255 LPH pump, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/3000 RPM converter, B&M Hammer shifter, FPP aluminum driveshaft, FPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 M/T Street Comp tires.

  7. #7

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    Danny! Thank you sir!

  8. #8

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    There's no ambient temp sensor, but one could be added, although it'd have limited utility in my opinion. Andrew

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    26,724

    Default

    He doesn't mean ambient air temp. He's referring to the difference between IAT & MAT (which I explained in post #6).
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS T/W 11R 205 heads, 232°-244° duration/.623" lift/114° LSA camshaft, 12:1 C/R, TFS R-Series FTI ported intake, BBK 80mm T/B, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 200A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, -6AN fuel system plumbing, Walbro 255 LPH pump, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/3000 RPM converter, B&M Hammer shifter, FPP aluminum driveshaft, FPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 M/T Street Comp tires.

  10. #10

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    Correct, it's likely I was using the wrong terms. This is often why I freely admit that I find people that know more than me and pay them to do the work. It's always bugged me a little when someone says "I did..." only to find out they meant "I paid..."
    I love going to Cars & Coffee and finding the people that do their own work and ask them questions. They really are passionate about it and (usually) happy to share or talk someone like me through things!

    I let the builder know that we'll have to go with SD only, and passed along the info from Andrew. He agreed that it could be done that way. Plus with the more robust processor of the Terminator, we'll likely get better performance than using (one of the very few) 3Bar SD Operating Systems that exist for the 0411PCM.

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