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Thread: Seasonal Idle Fine Tuning

  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qwktrip View Post
    Isn't that like double counting for the same factor? Why would you want it that way?
    No it's not. It's the difference between correcting fuel for a sensor reading and offsetting a new Target AFR. Even if Closed Loop and Learn are off, offsetting the Target AFR will change fueling. If you ask it to be 5% richer, it will add 5% fuel even without a wideband O2 sensor hooked up. The Advanced Tables Target AFR Offset work the same way.

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Cabral View Post
    If you prefer using an Advanced 1D/2D Table for IAT/MAT Correction, you'll need to experiment with it. I have no need for that, the Air Temperature Enrichment % table works fine for me.
    Your Air Temp Enrichment table is a view at sea level only. It's simply one of the rows in my table.

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qwktrip View Post
    So I read both threads. It begged the question in my mind; Why not just abandon (zero out) the Air Temp Enrichment table native to HP EFI, and instead make a custom Advanced 2D Table for Fuel Compensation with axis of Baro vs. IAT? Seems the basic equations are provided in the article linked above. And combining multiple factors into a single table should make tuning easier because you're adjusting one value instead of two separate values in two different tables.

    This is a worksheet I put together in Excel with fuel compensation percentages relative to STP (sea level and 15°C). Pressure scale is built off equations at the Wiki site for atmospheric pressure, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_pressure

    I can offset this entire table based on whatever Baro and Temp was present when I had my car tuned (I've got the datalog to reference).

    That is impressive and far beyond the comprehension of your average Holley user. Good job. Thing is, you'll find that your engine needs will not follow the ideal gas law exactly. But this is an excellent starting point. Even after you get this dialed in, you'll still need to do an IAC Offset.
    Last edited by allan5oh; 03-01-2020 at 12:23 PM.

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by allan5oh View Post
    No it's not. It's the difference between correcting fuel for a sensor reading and offsetting a new Target AFR. Even if closed loop and learn are off, offsetting the Target AFR will change fueling. If you ask it to be 5% richer, it will add 5% fuel even without a wideband O2 sensor hooked up. The Advanced Tables Target AFR Offset work the same way.
    I'm still confused why you'd want both. Whether you adjust fuel by percent or by AFR Offset, it's still just a fuel trim adjustment. Aren't these tables just battling each other? In other words, if I've got the cold start enrichment dialed in with the Coolant Temp Enrichment Table, then why would I even bother with AFR Offset? Seems like I'd want to zero out the AFR Offset or it'll screw up my work.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qwktrip View Post
    I'm still confused why you'd want both. Whether you adjust fuel by percent or by AFR Offset, it's still just a fuel trim adjustment. Aren't these tables just battling each other? In other words, if I've got the cold start enrichment dialed in with the Coolant Temp Enrichment Table, then why would I even bother with AFR Offset? Seems like I'd want to zero out the AFR Offset or it'll screw up my work.
    The Coolant Temp Enrichment % and A/F Ratio Offset tables are not the same thing.

    EFI Software Help Information/Instructions:
    ‒ On the top Toolbar, click "Help" & "Contents". This opens all Help topics.
    ‒ When navigating the software, click "Help ?", drag it to any parameter and click again.
    ...This automatically opens the definitions for that specific parameter.
    ‒ Tuning information can be read by clicking the F1 key, when you're viewing any screen.
    http://documents.holley.com/techlibrary_199r10544.pdf (Holley EFI Help/Instructions Overview)

    Quote Originally Posted by Qwktrip View Post
    Your Air Temp Enrichment table is a view at sea level only. It's simply one of the rows in my table.
    That's all it needs to be. It's simply an Air Temperature Enrichment % table (based on IAT/MAT temperature).
    If you want it based on air temperature and barometric pressure/kPa, use your Advanced 1D/2D Table.
    My engine runs flawlessly all year round; I'm not changing anything or arguing with anyone about it.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS T/W 11R 205 heads, 232°-244° duration/.623" lift/114° LSA camshaft, 12:1 C/R, TFS R-Series FTI ported intake, BBK 80mm T/B, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 200A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, -6AN fuel system plumbing, Walbro 255 LPH pump, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/3000 RPM converter, B&M Hammer shifter, FPP aluminum driveshaft, FPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 M/T Street Comp tires.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qwktrip View Post
    I'm still confused why you'd want both. Whether you adjust fuel by percent or by AFR Offset, it's still just a fuel trim adjustment. Aren't these tables just battling each other? In other words, if I've got the cold start enrichment dialed in with the Coolant Temp Enrichment Table, then why would I even bother with AFR Offset? Seems like I'd want to zero out the AFR Offset or it'll screw up my work.
    One changes the fueling to get BACK to the Target A/F Ratio. The other changes the fueling AND the Target A/F Ratio. Sometimes engines need a touch rich when they are cold compared to warmed.

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Cabral View Post
    My engine runs flawlessly all year round; I'm not changing anything or arguing with anyone about it.
    This isn't about you. This isn't an argument. and I didn't ask you to change your setup. This is what brainstorming looks like.

  8. #18
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    Location
    Connecticut
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    I completely understand. It just seemed like you were insinuating that I'm doing something wrong. No problem here.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS T/W 11R 205 heads, 232°-244° duration/.623" lift/114° LSA camshaft, 12:1 C/R, TFS R-Series FTI ported intake, BBK 80mm T/B, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 200A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, -6AN fuel system plumbing, Walbro 255 LPH pump, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/3000 RPM converter, B&M Hammer shifter, FPP aluminum driveshaft, FPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 M/T Street Comp tires.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by allan5oh View Post
    That is impressive and far beyond the comprehension of your average Holley user. Good job. Thing is, you'll find that your engine needs will not follow the ideal gas law exactly. But this is an excellent starting point. Even after you get this dialed in, you'll still need to do an IAC Offset.
    Thanks. Do you have a working example of an IAC Offset table that you've made? Seeing a working example would help me get a feel for the scale of adjustment we're talking about.

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Cabral View Post
    I completely understand. It just seemed like you were insinuating that I'm doing something wrong. No problem here.
    All good. I just thought it was really interesting that the sea level row in my table was a match to the yawpower.com worksheet. It's confirmation of data.

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