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Thread: Ignition Advice

  1. #11
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    Yes, he's referring to the Coil-Near-Plug ignition system with a cam sensor.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 232°-244° duration/.623" lift/114° LSA camshaft, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series FTI ported intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 200A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/3000 RPM converter, FPP aluminum driveshaft, FPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 MT tires.

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeP View Post
    Thanks Andy for the reply. What do you mean by "Smart Coil System"? Do you mean Coil-Near-Plug setup? Since I'm building this from scratch I did look into that option, but was not exactly sure how it would work. I'd still need a cam sensor to make that work right? I have a factory '66 Chevelle and not really sure where I would mount them. I'll search to see if there are any examples of how to mount them.
    Fairly easy to mount the coils on the valve covers. CNP is more money than traditional distributor & box, but it solves some issues and it should be plug & play with a Chevy SB engine. I had to design and build my own cam sync on my engine since I have a BB Mopar, but guys with Chevy engines can buy the parts from Summit. Here's the setup I did for my car: https://www.hotrod.com/articles/dust...ock-body-swap/
    Last edited by AndyF; 01-29-2020 at 02:03 AM.

  3. #13
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    Nov 2019
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    Illinois
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    First off is that your Duster Andy? It looks AWESOME!!!

    I did do some more research last night and you're right there are options for Chevys to mount the coils. The main reason I was looking at the Dual Sync was to use its cam & crank sensor so I can do sequential MPFI, plus I dig the Plug & Play with the HP harness. My car will mainly be on the street so we opted to not install a belt drive which from what I see is required for a cam sensor. I do see there's an option to remove the cap & rotor on the Dual Sync and install a blank cap so you can use CNP.

    When using the CNP system is there a harness to connect it directly to the HP system? Does it also require a CD box? Thanks again, I'm learning a lot here.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeP View Post
    My car will mainly be on the street so we opted to not install a belt drive which from what I see is required for a cam sensor.
    No, it's not. This is what a cam sync/oil pump drive unit is for.

    Does it also require a CD box?
    No, multiple coil ignition systems don't use CD ignition boxes.

    When using the CNP system is there a harness to connect it directly to the HP system?
    Yes, of course.
    Originally Posted by Danny Cabral
    If you already have or you're purchasing a new Holley EFI non-LSx main harness:
    The Holley 558-307 CNP main harness is for Holley's Coil-On-Plug smart coils and LSx ignition coils (nine terminated loose wires into J1B).
    If using Holley's 556-112 CNP coils, the Holley 558-318 CNP coil sub-harness is also required (or the Holley 556-128 CNP Big Wire V8 Kit).
    For LSx coils, Holley 558-307 CNP main harness plugs into two GM 12579355 CNP sub-harnesses or Holley 558-321 LSx coil sub-harnesses.
    If you had a Holley EFI LSx main harness, you wouldn't need the Holley 558-307 CNP main harness or the 558-318 CNP coil sub-harness.
    https://www.holley.com/products/igni...nd_components/ (Holley EFI Coil-Near-Plug Ignition Components)
    https://www.holley.com/products/igni.../parts/556-128 (Holley EFI 556-128 Coil-Near-Plug Big Wire V8 Kit)
    https://www.holley.com/products/fuel.../parts/558-117 (Holley EFI 558-117 Universal MPFI Coil-Near-Plug Main Harness)
    https://www.holley.com/products/fuel.../parts/558-118 (Holley EFI 558-118 Ford Universal MPFI Coil-Near-Plug Main Harness)
    https://forums.holley.com/showthread...3038#post33038 (Detailed Crank Trigger & CNP/DIS Conversion Information & Reasoning)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 232°-244° duration/.623" lift/114° LSA camshaft, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series FTI ported intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 200A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/3000 RPM converter, FPP aluminum driveshaft, FPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 MT tires.

  5. #15
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    Nov 2019
    Location
    Illinois
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    Danny, I did see the cam sync/oil pump drive unit just after I posted. Would I still need a Crank Sensor if I when that route?

    Thanks for all the links to all the harnesses, it does seem very simple to wire up.

    Does anyone make a SBC (Non-LSx) valve cover with coil brackets on them, or a bracket that will mount to regular valve covers?

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeP View Post
    Danny, I did see the cam sync/oil pump drive unit just after I posted. Would I still need a Crank Sensor if I when that route?
    Not if it also has a crank sensor inside (like the Dual Sync Distributor. Refer to post #6 above.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 232°-244° duration/.623" lift/114° LSA camshaft, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series FTI ported intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 200A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/3000 RPM converter, FPP aluminum driveshaft, FPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 MT tires.

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeP View Post
    First off is that your Duster Andy? It looks AWESOME!!!
    I did do some more research last night and you're right there are options for Chevys to mount the coils. The main reason I was looking at the Dual Sync was to use its cam & crank sensor so I can do sequential MPFI, plus I dig the Plug & Play with the HP harness. My car will mainly be on the street so we opted to not install a belt drive which from what I see is required for a cam sensor. I do see there's an option to remove the cap & rotor on the Dual Sync and install a blank cap so you can use CNP.

    When using the CNP system is there a harness to connect it directly to the HP system? Does it also require a CD box? Thanks again, I'm learning a lot here.
    Yes, that is my Duster. I built that for Car Craft with some help from Holley and others.

    I think Danny has answered most of your questions so I'll just sum it up by saying that for a Chevy engine, MPFI and CNP are plug & play. You can order everything you need from Summit and snap it together like lego. There are several different ways to do it. You can use the dual sync distributor with a blank cap. That is cost effective but kind of ugly. Or you can use a cam sync in the distributor hole and a crank trigger at the damper. Holley and MSD both sell various types of crank triggers including magnetic or ferrous targets. They sell 36-1 as well as 4 magnet setups. You can also buy a damper from ATI with teeth on it or magnets embedded into the out shell.

    If this is all new to you then you might want to talk to an expert. I use Rich at FAST Man EFI whenever I get lost in the weeds. Rich knows just about everything EFI and he's a Holley dealer. There are a few other places who can help or you can ask questions on here and use Google to find answers.

  8. #18
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    Nov 2019
    Location
    Illinois
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    OK so it looks like I have three options since starting this process. The prices are ball-parked from Holley website.

    Ready-To-Run Distributor (Engine builders recommendation before we were going MPFI) - No Timing Control (Still not sure how to connect this to the ECU.)
    - 8360 Distributor - $362
    - Blaster Coil - $60
    - Total = $422

    Dual Sync Distributor - EFI Timing Control
    - Dual Sync Distributor - $350
    - 6201 6A Box - $233
    - 8253 Coil - $237
    - Total = $820

    Coil-Near-Plug - EFI Timing Control
    - Dual Sync Distributor (for Cam and Crank Sensor)- $350
    - 556-128 Coil Near Plug Kit - $760
    - 558-307 Harness - $112
    - Total = $1,222

    Does it look like I'm missing anything? Looks like there's about $400 difference between the Dual Sync & CNP setup. I know I did not figure wires, but not worried about that.
    I'm leaning toward the CNP setup after reading more about them. Just would like to find a way to mount them to regular SBC valve covers, I don't see anyone that makes a bracket for them (lots of LS stuff).
    Last edited by MikeP; 01-29-2020 at 03:57 PM.

  9. #19

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    You can scratch the Ready-To-Run distributor from your list, that distributor is a dead end when used with Holley EFI.
    Holley sells mounting brackets for the coils, so all you have to do is mount the brackets on your valve covers. Probably works the best if you use a cast or sheet metal valve cover with a flat top.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by andyf View Post
    Holley sells mounting brackets for the coils, so all you have to do is mount the brackets on your valve covers. Probably works the best if you use a cast or sheet metal valve cover with a flat top.
    https://www.holley.com/products/igni...nd_components/ (Holley EFI Coil-Near-Plug Ignition Components)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 232°-244° duration/.623" lift/114° LSA camshaft, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series FTI ported intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 200A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/3000 RPM converter, FPP aluminum driveshaft, FPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 MT tires.

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