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Thread: 36x With Cam Sync

  1. #11

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    I'd argue that it's a smart design by the SW team. Rather than killing the engine they have it default to waste-fire if the cam signal goes away. I actually knew this happened, but it didn't click in my brain when Rich mentioned what he was seeing. I recall reading about this a while back. I believe the latest version of V5 has a feature where the cam signal is just used on startup and then the system doesn't look at it anymore. It's the same idea of making the system fault tolerant.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by andyf View Post
    II believe the latest version of V5 has a feature where the cam signal is just used on startup and then the system doesn't look at it anymore. It's the same idea of making the system fault tolerant.
    Yes, see my post #9 above.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS T/W 11R 205 heads, 232°-244° duration/.623" lift/114° LSA camshaft, 12:1 C/R, TFS R-Series FTI ported intake, BBK 80mm T/B, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 200A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, -6AN fuel system plumbing, Walbro 255 LPH pump, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/3000 RPM converter, B&M Hammer shifter, FPP aluminum driveshaft, FPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 M/T Street Comp tires.

  3. Default

    Hi Rich. You & I had this discussion two years ago using your 36x crank wheel and your cam sensor on my 440 and 605 Mopar engines, using CNP. I bought a new oscilloscope and found noise coming from the injectors. A lot of injected noise. I fixed my cam/crank problem by using two (2) 47K Can Filter Capacitors. One at the fuse panel/ground which cleaned up the noise on the B20 +12V pin, and another Filter Cap. At the Main power/Battery feed at the starter solenoid. The amplitude of the noise is very much lower, but still there. Bottom line was that the electrical noise from the injectors is significant. Oh, and I had to use Digital Falling on both the Cam & Crank sensors. Mark
    Last edited by lockjaw-express; 01-25-2020 at 11:04 AM.

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by andyf View Post
    I'd argue that it's a smart design by the SW team. Rather than killing the engine they have it default to waste-fire if the cam signal goes away. I actually knew this happened, but it didn't click in my brain when Rich mentioned what he was seeing. I recall reading about this a while back. I believe the latest version of V5 has a feature where the cam signal is just used on startup and then the system doesn't look at it anymore. It's the same idea of making the system fault tolerant.
    The two are not the same. The first can cause issues with certain coils. Just speculation here, but that method could certainly cause engine mechanical issues. This is a case where fault tolerance may actually work against you. The second method is much more preferable as it continues to run in full sequential.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by lockjaw-express View Post
    I bought a new oscilloscope and found noise coming from the injectors. A lot of injected noise.
    Yes, it can also freeze the IAC motor if its wiring is too close to a fuel injector(s).

    Oh, and I had to use Digital Falling on both the Cam & Crank sensors. Mark
    Yes, always use Digital Falling. Digital Falling is much preferred because it's a cleaner signal.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS T/W 11R 205 heads, 232°-244° duration/.623" lift/114° LSA camshaft, 12:1 C/R, TFS R-Series FTI ported intake, BBK 80mm T/B, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 200A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, -6AN fuel system plumbing, Walbro 255 LPH pump, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/3000 RPM converter, B&M Hammer shifter, FPP aluminum driveshaft, FPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 M/T Street Comp tires.

  6. #16
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    Default 36-1 Trigger Wheel Setup

    Danny, I'm currently running sequential injection on my BBC using a Holley dual sync. I want to eventually go to the CNP setup, so I decided to install the Holley 36-1 crank trigger and just use the cam signal from the dual sync. Now that we're on lock down, it seemed like a good time to tinker in the shop.

    When I was mocking it up yesterday I set the engine to TDC compression stroke, thinking that was required. After removing the damper and playing with it on my bench, it seems to me that it doesn't matter if it's at TDC on the compression or the exhaust stroke, it just needs to be at TDC. I'm only asking out of curiosity because when I reinstall the damper I'll just rotate it to the next TDC event regardless of which one if it doesn't matter. Thanks, John

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by $>.01 View Post
    When I was mocking it up yesterday I set the engine to TDC compression stroke, thinking that was required. After removing the damper and playing with it on my bench, it seems to me that it doesn't matter if it's at TDC on the compression or the exhaust stroke, it just needs to be at TDC.
    Correct. http://documents.holley.com/199r10898.pdf (Holley EFI 36-1 Crank Trigger Kit Instructions)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS T/W 11R 205 heads, 232°-244° duration/.623" lift/114° LSA camshaft, 12:1 C/R, TFS R-Series FTI ported intake, BBK 80mm T/B, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 200A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, -6AN fuel system plumbing, Walbro 255 LPH pump, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/3000 RPM converter, B&M Hammer shifter, FPP aluminum driveshaft, FPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 M/T Street Comp tires.

  8. #18
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    Default

    Thank you sir!

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by $>.01 View Post
    Danny, I'm currently running sequential injection on my BBC using a Holley dual sync. I want to eventually go to the CNP setup, so I decided to install the Holley 36-1 crank trigger and just use the cam signal from the dual sync. Now that we're on lock down, it seemed like a good time to tinker in the shop.

    When I was mocking it up yesterday I set the engine to TDC compression stroke, thinking that was required. After removing the damper and playing with it on my bench, it seems to me that it doesn't matter if it's at TDC on the compression or the exhaust stroke, it just needs to be at TDC. I'm only asking out of curiosity because when I reinstall the damper I'll just rotate it to the next TDC event regardless of which one if it doesn't matter. Thanks, John
    Crank signal is TDC only. Cam signal tells if it's on compression stroke or not.

  10. #20
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    Connecticut
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    Quote Originally Posted by $>.01 View Post
    Thank you sir!
    You're welcome.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS T/W 11R 205 heads, 232°-244° duration/.623" lift/114° LSA camshaft, 12:1 C/R, TFS R-Series FTI ported intake, BBK 80mm T/B, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 200A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, -6AN fuel system plumbing, Walbro 255 LPH pump, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/3000 RPM converter, B&M Hammer shifter, FPP aluminum driveshaft, FPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 M/T Street Comp tires.

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