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Thread: Growing Project Recomendation

  1. #1

    Default Growing Project Recomendation

    Good Morning All! Looking for a little advice from someone more seasoned than me. I'm a slow evolver from carburetors, but have a good understanding of EFI. I worked for Lincoln/Mercury Dealers in the 90s up to 2003 doing driveability work so I'm familiar with how it works. Just for my hot rods, it was just more cost effective to run a carb. I recently did build a Bronco with a speed density EFI that I tuned with Moates QH and Tuner Pro. My next project is for a friend of mine who, with me are building a car for drag week.

    The car is a '69 Charger. The first stage of the powertrain will be an iron headed 426 Hemi. Pump Gas (10.25:1), solid roller (not purchased yet, but will need to have enough idle vacuum to run EFI). The car will be naturally aspirated (well maybe a small nitrous system) The current setup has a tunnel ram with removable top. I was originally thinking the Sniper 2x4 would be the best for it, but my buddy plans to later redo the setup to include a twin turbo setup. The upper part of the tunnel ram will be fabricated to include a plenum with a forward facing throttle body and MPI.

    My question is, would it make best sense to just do a HP MPFI setup now (probably a no brainer), but more importantly, can I size the injectors and throttle body for the future power expectations and still have the resolution and control when it's in the first stage? Will the system be able to have good idle/cruise control with say 80 lb/hr injectors if only running maybe a 650-700 engine? I was hoping that having larger than expected injectors would allow us to run a dry Nitrous system with the injectors providing the enrichment. What are your thoughts? Thanks!

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark B View Post
    My question is would it make best sense to just do a HP MPFI setup now (probably a no brainer),...
    Yes.

    ...but more importantly, can I size the injectors and throttle body for the future power expectations and still have the resolution and control when it's in the first stage?
    Yes, Holley EFI has a very large 31x31 Base Fuel & Timing Tables for maximum resolution.

    Will the system be able to have good idle/cruise control with say 80 lb/hr injectors if only running maybe a 650-700 engine?
    Yes, Holley EFI has powerful fuel injector drivers to operate injectors at lower than typical idle pulse widths.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/3000 RPM converter, FPP aluminum driveshaft, FPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 MT tires.

  3. #3

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    Thanks for the quick reply!

  4. #4

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    The answer always depends on how much time, talent and money you have. If you want to go multi-port then take a serious look at the Edelbrock dual quad EFI intake. That setup should be almost plug & play with a Holley HP ECU and a Dual Sync Distributor. If you want to step it up another notch and go Coil-Near-Plug, then you can do that too. FAST Man EFI can help you with anything related to Mopar EFI.

  5. #5

    Default

    Thanks Andy. That system does look nice and truly ideal for the current stage of the engine. I think it won't be able to keep up when the next phase (Stroker, aluminum heads and twin turbo) come into play. Hoping to buy one EFI setup and be done. My current shopping list with the HP setup is sitting at about $4400. I do find that Holley is really proud of their harnesses. I may build my own to save a few bucks. the Delphi connectors are not expensive (not all that great either) and I used to build harnesses for my job so...

  6. #6
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    Install Holley EFI once and be done. If you already have an intake manifold that will work well for your future power gains, you can install fuel injectors & fuel rails onto it.
    Example: http://forums.holley.com/showthread....old-Conversion (My MPFI Intake Manifold Conversion)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/3000 RPM converter, FPP aluminum driveshaft, FPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 MT tires.

  7. #7

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    I think that will be the plan. First stage will most likely use the tunnel ram lower with the injectors plumbed in. The top will probably be a high ram upper with forward facing throttle body and whatever modification work is needed to combine the two. Later a new lower will be fabricated with custom runners and an intercooler between the upper & lower (Water-To-Air).

  8. #8

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    You're talking about a lot of work. It might be better to just buy off the shelf parts and get the car going. Lots of projects get stalled because too much on the plate. The Edelbrock manifold will bolt on, fuel rails bolt on, dual throttle bodies bolt on, HP ECU plugs in, dual sync distributor drops into place, etc. FAST Man EFI can sell you the setup and provide a startup tune. If you follow that plan you'll have the car running in a few weeks.

  9. #9

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    I would not take on that project myself (I'm helping with engine design & wiring), but he (car owner) is the owner of his own fabrication shop (https://jamiesonfab.com/) with everything to make the part work and to create the new one. I think the Edelbrock manifold would be a step backwards from the tunnel ram it currently has as far as airflow. For a pure street car, it would be a nice choice.

    Looking a little closer at the specs of the Edelbrock system (2000 CFM throttle bodies), it may be enough. I'm just concerned that the ports of the manifold won't be enough. I'd like to see flow numbers of the manifold.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark B View Post
    I think the Edelbrock manifold would be a step backwards from the tunnel ram it currently has as far as airflow.
    I agree. Here's a link to a forum thread, pertaining to MPFI tunnel ram type of intake manifolds:
    See posts #3 & #4: http://www.chevelles.com/forums/show...28#post3569328 (Informative Thread)
    FYI: Doug Flynn is the Chief EFI Engineer at Holley, and "Wolfplace" has tuned many Holley EFI combinations.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/3000 RPM converter, FPP aluminum driveshaft, FPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 MT tires.

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