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Thread: Coolant Temperature Enrichment

  1. #1

    Default Coolant Temperature Enrichment

    Iíve been looking at various threads, but I havenít really found a good explanation of the Coolant Temperature Enrichment function. Does it simply add fuel to the Base Fuel Table? With the Sniper operating in Closed Loop almost immediately, is the purpose only to keep the CL Comp from having to make larger changes to hit the Target AFR? It makes sense to me from an Open Loop standpoint, but I guess Iím not fully understanding the importance during Closed Loop operation. Thanks guys.

  2. #2
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    "Coolant Temperature Enrichment", page 12: http://documents.holley.com/techlibrary_199r11259.pdf (Holley Sniper EFI Help Manual - EFI Software, Tuning & Datalogging)

    As you know, the Coolant & Air Temperature Enrichment % tables are active immediately after starting the engine.
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....6649#post66649 (Coolant Temperature Enrichment % Table Tuning)
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....7913#post67913 (Air Temperature Enrichment % Table Tuning)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 200A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/3000 RPM converter, FPP aluminum driveshaft, FPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 MT tires.

  3. #3

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    Thanks. That wasnít in the manual that Iíve been referencing. I think mine is fairly close, as I havenít messed with the AFR offset. Might need a little more as it seems to add fuel on cold start.

    This is a related question, but where does the Learned Compensation % on a cold engine come from? Since Learning only occurs above 160įF. Does it just save the idle value and apply it to all temperatures? I havenít dug into the PC software yet to see how these tables really work, so pardon me if this is a dumb question.

  4. #4
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    "Enable Closed Loop" & "Base Fuel Learn Enabled" are the only parameters that need to be check marked in Closed Loop/Learn Parameters.
    Learning doesn't happen until the engine reaches normal operating temperature, nor would you want it to. Read this forum thread:
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....7370#post47370 (Closed Loop & Learn Table - Especially posts #2, #6 & #11.)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 200A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/3000 RPM converter, FPP aluminum driveshaft, FPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 MT tires.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by BMWM.D. View Post
    Thanks. That wasn’t in the manual that I’ve been referencing. I think mine is fairly close, as I haven’t messed with the AFR offset. Might need a little more as it seems to add fuel on cold start. This is a related question, but where does the Learned Compensation % on a cold engine come from? Since Learning only occurs above 160įF. Does it just save the idle value and apply it to all temperatures? I haven’t dug into the PC software yet to see how these tables really work, so pardon me if this is a dumb question.
    There is not a temp function to the Learn Table. Learn is Learn regardless of engine temp. There is a formula for actual fuel injected. I've never seen the formula written out, but it's something like this. Actual Fuel = Base Fuel + Learn + CL Comp. Then there's a feedback loop which says something along the lines of Actual AFR (compare) Target AFR + AFR adjustments.

    So the ECU is looking at the Target AFR and adjusting against it. If there are AFR adjustments for coolant temp or air temp then those are taken into account. The Base Fuel Table is adjusted by the Learn Table and squirted into the engine. CL Comp comes along after and makes adjustments to get back to adjusted target.

    The Learn algorithm looks at the CL Comp is and tries to reduce it to zero. So if you start an engine with a rich Base Fuel Table, the CL Comp will immediately start to take fuel out. After a while the Learn Table will start to take over and within a few minutes the Learn Table will fill up enough that CL Comp will be close to zero. I don't know exactly how Learn works, it seems to have a bit of a delayed reaction, but I don't know if that's coded in or just a function of sensor and ECU lag.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by BMWM.D. View Post
    I’ve been looking at various threads, but I haven’t really found a good explanation of the Coolant Temperature Enrichment function. Does it simply add fuel to the Base Fuel Table? With the Sniper operating in Closed Loop almost immediately, is the purpose only to keep the CL Comp from having to make larger changes to hit the Target AFR? It makes sense to me from an Open Loop standpoint, but I guess I’m not fully understanding the importance during Closed Loop operation. Thanks guys.
    Depends which table you use. There are tables that add fuel and there are tables that make AFR offsets. They do the same thing, but in different ways. It may or may not matter which approach that you use, but if you get in there and start messing with stuff you should at least think about what's going on. Datalogging some cold startups is a good idea if you are trying to learn this stuff. It would also be a good idea to review the datalogs against all of the tables so you can see how the cursor is moving around on the tables during warm up.

  7. #7
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    Originally Posted by Danny Cabral
    It's helpful to record a short datalog of an occurrence, Overlay it onto your Config File, and manually tune the lean or rich problem area.
    Look at where the live cursor moves to during this occurrence, and manually tune (enrich or lean) that area of the Base Fuel Table.
    When the engine is tuned & running well, you should decrease the Closed Loop & Learned Compensation Limits % to lock in a good tune.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHjLwJQ45Kw (Holley Sniper EFI Datalogging Tech Video)
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....7370#post47370 (Closed Loop & Learn Table - Especially posts #2, #6 & #11.)
    Originally Posted by Danny Cabral
    Quick Datalogger Information:
    Always provide data, not just symptoms. Is the AFR & ignition timing optimized? Overlay the datalog onto your Config File.
    Ensure the Target A/F Ratio table is properly programmed for your engine. Ensure the ECU is "Learning" (Learn Table LINK).
    Scroll through the datalog to the problem area. Then look exactly where this happens on the Base Fuel & Timing Tables. Scrutinize:
    RPM, MAP, MAT, TPS, CTS, IAC, Target AFR, AFR Left, CL Comp, Ignition Timing, Duty Cycle, Fuel Flow, Fuel Pressure & Battery.

    Using the Holley Sniper EFI software (LINK), look at where the live cursor moves to during this occurrence, and
    manually tune that area of the Base Fuel Table (enrich or lean) & Base Timing Table (optimize ignition timing).


    I find the most helpful datalog function, is overlaying the datalog on your Config File.
    I'm in the habit of using the datalog Overlay feature every time I review a datalog.
    Click on "Datalog" (on the top Toolbar), "Activate Overlay", then "Open Data Log".
    You can literally "playback" a recorded event, and watch it as it happened on any screen.
    Minimize (shrink) the datalog window, and move it to the bottom of any Config File screen.
    Then click & scroll anywhere on the datalog, and watch it playback on your Config File (EFI software).
    http://documents.holley.com/techlibr...9r10543rev.pdf (Holley EFI Datalogger Instructions)
    https://forums.holley.com/showthread...s-amp-Datalogs (Datalog Information - Read "NOTES")
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqHO...C6FEA0BB99AF17 (How To Record & Email A Datalog)
    https://forums.holley.com/showthread...7531#post77531 (Closed Loop Datalog Tuning - Posts #2, #4 & #6)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 200A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/3000 RPM converter, FPP aluminum driveshaft, FPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 MT tires.

  8. #8

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    Since the Sniper ECU calculations begin and end with the Target AFRs, I'd start with them. For cold engines, the Target AFR Offset table makes the most sense to me to use, then after you get the "cold engine Target AFRs" (Target +/- the Offset), you can math out the changes needed to make to the Coolant Temp Enrichment table to minimize the Sniper calculations.

  9. #9
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    This is how it's done: http://forums.holley.com/showthread....6649#post66649 (Coolant Temperature Enrichment % Table Tuning)
    Additional Information: http://forums.holley.com/showthread....6254#post36254 (Good Starting Advice Thread - Especially posts #2, #4 & #6.)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 200A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/3000 RPM converter, FPP aluminum driveshaft, FPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 MT tires.

  10. #10

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    I think that answers my question. If Learn Comp % isn’t tied to coolant temp (and Learning isn’t active on a cool engine), then it makes more sense.

    Maybe I’ll get the laptop thing setup this weekend. Using the handheld is a little clumsy anyway. Thanks guys.

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