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Thread: Closed Loop/Self-Tuning

  1. #1

    Default Closed Loop/Self-Tuning

    I paid for a startup tune from a board member here. Started the engine and the self-tuning/Learning was not working. Called and told them the issue and was told I had to figure out why it's not working. Thought it would be setup correctly in the startup tune. Is there certain parameters that need to be set? I have the box checked for Closed Loop/self-tuning. There were no % changes during the idle. Thanks. you.

  2. #2
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    Yes, the Learn Table (Fuel ICF) should be populating the table with numbers. Check your Closed Loop/Learn parameters. "Enable Closed Loop" and "Base Fuel Learn Enabled" are the only parameters that need to be check marked. Also: http://forums.holley.com/showthread....5760#post45760 (Scroll down to "Learn Issues, Self-Tuning".)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  3. #3
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    Closed Loop does not activate until the "After Start Enrichment" has run out. Check to see how long this is set to stay active.

  4. #4

    Default

    So here are the issues. I followed the link you posted Danny and the Coolant Temp Enrichment is all populated with numbers over 100° until engine reaches 160° then it's 100°. The A/F Ratio Offset is not zeroed out either. It's all negative numbers. Air Temp Enrichment is at 100%. After Start Enrichment is 182.6% at 60° and ramps down to 110% from 160° all the way to 260°. Closed Loop is enabled as well as Base Fuel Learn. So in reading the link if I understand it. Coolant Temp Enrichment has to all be at 100%. A/F Ratio Offset has to be at 0. And Air Temp Enrichment at 100% for the Learn to be working. Why would the tuner not adjust this or even tell me when I called?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by 421stroker View Post
    So here are the issues. I followed the link you posted Danny and the Coolant Temp Enrichment is all populated with numbers over 100° until engine reaches 160° then it's 100°.
    That seems fine to me.

    The A/F Ratio Offset is not zeroed out either. It's all negative numbers.
    Again, it only needs to be zero by normal operating temperature.

    Air Temp Enrichment is at 100%. After Start Enrichment is 182.6% at 60° and ramps down to 110% from 160° all the way to 260°.
    This doesn't matter, and I never mentioned it. It'll enter Closed Loop when the After Start Decay Rate ends.

    Closed Loop is enabled as well as Base Fuel Learn.
    Good.

    So in reading the link if I understand it. Coolant Temp Enrichment has to all be at 100%. A/F Ratio Offset has to be at 0.
    Not the entire table(s). Again, it only needs to be 100% & zero by normal operating temperature.

    And Air Temp Enrichment at 100% for the Learn to be working.
    No.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Cabral View Post
    That seems fine to me.
    OK.

    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Cabral View Post
    Again, it only needs to be zero by normal operating temperature.
    OK, then that's OK.

    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Cabral View Post
    This doesn't matter, and I never mentioned it. It'll enter Closed Loop when the After Start Decay Rate ends.
    81 TransAm asked, I was replying to him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Cabral View Post
    Not the entire table(s). Again, it only needs to be 100% & zero by normal operating temperature.
    It's zero at 140°, but the way it's typed -0.0, does that matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Cabral View Post
    No.
    Air Temp Enrichment is 100% from -40 to 275°.

    I ran the engine from °50 to 195°F.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by 421stroker View Post
    It's zero at 140°, but the way it's typed -0.0, does that matter?
    Then set it to zero if it concerns you.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  8. #8

    Default

    It did concern me, that's why I'm asking. I'm asking questions after I used a board recommended tuner I paid for a startup tune. After I asked him about it he basically said pay for my online course/or live tune or try to figure it out on your own. You're saying it supposed to go into self Closed Loop/Learn when warmed up. It didn't because I have no corrections. Am I missing something? When I pulled plugs there were carboned up pretty good. This was relayed to the tuner as well and he said that was normal, he didn't seem concerned. It's a new build/first start. Was told that I should get heat into it then shut it off and would be fine. So yes, I'm concerned that everything is correct. I paid a tuner and trying to learn here. I received more information out of you than who I paid. I asked about doing a datalog and was told it wouldn't help. Kinda lost here.

  9. #9
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    Datalogging should be one of the first things you do when diagnosing a problem. Then you can compare what you see in your datalog to what the settings are telling you it should be.

  10. #10
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    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....2523#post62523 (Holley EFI Tuning Tips & Information)

    Originally Posted by Danny Cabral
    Quick Datalogger Information:
    Always provide data, not just symptoms. Is the AFR & ignition timing optimized? Overlay the datalog onto your Global File.
    Ensure the Target A/F Ratio table is properly programmed for your engine. Ensure the ECU is "Learning" (Learn Table LINK).
    Scroll through the datalog to the problem area. Then look exactly where this happens on the Base Fuel & Timing Tables. Scrutinize:
    RPM, MAP, MAT, TPS, CTS, IAC, Target AFR, AFR Left, CL Comp, Ignition Timing, Duty Cycle, Fuel Flow, Fuel Pressure & Battery.

    Using the Holley EFI software (LINK), look at where the live cursor moves to during this occurrence, and
    manually tune that area of the Base Fuel Table (enrich or lean) & Base Timing Table (optimize ignition timing).


    I find the most helpful datalog function, is overlaying the datalog on your Global File.
    I'm in the habit of using the datalog Overlay feature every time I review a datalog.
    Click on "Datalog" (on the top Toolbar), "Activate Overlay", then "Open Data Log".
    You can literally "playback" a recorded event, and watch it as it happened on any screen.
    Minimize (shrink) the datalog window, and move it to the bottom of any Global File screen.
    Then click & scroll anywhere on the datalog, and watch it playback on your Global File (EFI software).
    http://documents.holley.com/techlibr...9r10543rev.pdf (Holley EFI Datalogger Instructions)
    https://forums.holley.com/showthread...s-amp-Datalogs (Datalog & System Log Information - Read "NOTES")
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqHO...C6FEA0BB99AF17 (How To Record & Email A Datalog)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7OZUXLRS1Q (How To Record A System Log & Diagnose A No-Start Condition)
    https://forums.holley.com/showthread...7531#post77531 (Closed Loop Datalog Tuning - Posts #2, #4 & #6)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

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