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Thread: Help With No Start

  1. #1

    Default Help With No Start

    Just finished the install of the Dominator setup on a SBF Turbo setup. The car will not fire. The car cranks and cranks, occasionally it will pop, but it feels like the firing order and/or the timing is really messed up. I did confirm that each coil plug was firing.
    ECU Computer purchased new from Danny.
    Holley 558-117 Main Harness for CNP
    MSD 8640 Flying Magnet Crank Trigger with the 554-118 Hall-Effect Sensor.
    MSD 85221 Cam Sync.
    Holley 558-431 ignition harness and the harness is unmodified.
    Holley 558-431 harness was seemingly very easy to install as the cam sync and crank sensor plug right into one end, and the opposite end plugs directly into the ignition plug on the 558-117 main harness.

    Setting up crank/cam sync:
    Crank is at 50° BTDC in software. Rolled engine to 185° BTDC, inserted cam sync, and slowly turned the engine. The LED light stays off until we get to 45° BTDC.

    I found these threads over the weekend and believed Danny's instructions on how to configure the cam/crank sync were followed properly. But still cannot get the car to fire. I tried Digital Falling & Digital Rising on the sensors and neither made a tangible difference.
    https://forums.holley.com/showthread...m-Sensor-Setup
    https://forums.holley.com/showthread...0285#post90285
    On further edit, I'm running the 558-213 injector harness. The wires on each side of the plug (injector harness to main harness plug) are all different colors. Does that mean anything? Thanks in advance. Thanks for all your help.
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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Connecticut
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    22,675

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    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....5760#post45760 (Scroll down to "Typical No-Start Checks".)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  3. #3

    Default

    Originally Posted by Danny Cabral
    Is the battery fully charged? Yes
    Have you performed a TPS Autoset? Yes
    Is the engine cranking fast enough (100+ RPM)? Yes
    Does the Data Monitor display legitimate cranking RPM? Yes
    Does the Data Monitor display legitimate sensor values? Yes
    Does a Datalog indicate any RPM Errors? None that I see.
    Is the throttle blade(s) open far enough to start? Yes
    Are the crank & cam sensor/reluctor air gaps set correctly? Yes, see original post on how I set the cam sensor following your instructions from another thread.
    Do the crank & cam sensors have power & ground? Yes
    Keyed +12V red/white wire powered when cranking? Yes
    Fuel pressure set to proper psi (Actual System Pressure)? Yes
    Are the fuel injectors spraying fuel? Yes
    Does the fuel pump prime for 5 seconds at key-on? Yes
    Is the ECU controlling timing? Yes
    Does a timing light indicate there's spark/ignition? Yes
    What does your ignition system consist of? MSD 8640 Flying Magnet Crank Trigger with the 554-118 Hall-Effect Sensor. MSD 85221 Cam Sync 558-431 ignition harness.
    Correct Ignition Type entered in Ignition Parameters? Yes, see screenshot attached to original post.
    Are the spark plugs fuel fouled/wet? On second set of plugs, first plugs were soaked in fuel.
    Is the ignition timing synchronized with the ECU? Yes
    Are you running in sequential mode? If so, check the cam sync sensor. Need help.
    Air or Coolant Temp Enrichment Modifiers erroneously set to 0% or 70%? Those parameters were unmodified from original global file that was downloaded.
    The engine won't start if the throttle is opened beyond the "Clear Flood TPS" setting.
    Is it correctly wired as shown in the wiring manual? (Holley EFI Wiring Manual - LINK)
    Disconnect the ECU Main Power Harness for 20 minutes. This "resets" some unusual ECU issues. Unplugged this morning before I left for work, will reconnect this evening.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    22,675

    Default

    It's just a list of checks; you didn't have to answer them all here.

    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....ing-Holley-EFI (Ignition Timing Synchronization)
    CNP/COP/DIS & single coil/distributor ignition synchronization verification & troubleshooting information at the end of post #1.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  5. #5

    Default

    In the process of troubleshooting, and to eliminate variables, can I turn off the cam signal and run in batch with Coil-On-Plug? I was under the impression I could not.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    22,675

    Default

    Not with a 4x crank trigger kit (1 Pulse/Fire). A missing tooth type crank trigger kit can fire CNP coils in waste-spark mode, but it's not acceptable for long term use, due to their much higher dwell time. (CNP coils are simply not designed for this, however, it's still a good troubleshooting/emergency option if the cam sensor fails.)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  7. #7

    Default

    Thanks Danny.
    I'll head back this evening and go through the sync verification again.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    22,675

    Default

    You're welcome.

    FYI: I installed a Holley EFI 556-115 36-1 Crank Trigger Kit with a with MSD 85221 cam sync unit, and it's all plug & play with the Holley 558-431 Crank/Cam Sensor Harness. The MSD 8640 Flying Magnet Crank Trigger Kit with the Holley 554-118 Hall-Effect Sensor is much more expensive, and doesn't offer as much resolution (although it's not the problem you're having).
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  9. #9

    Default

    I initially purchased the Holley Dual Sync distributor in the hopes of keeping this conversion much more simple. The distributor did not fit my intake. Attached is a pic of that distributor. I spoke with a Holley rep who advised my only option was to go with a cam sync setup with crank trigger & CNP. I also purchased the 556-115 crank trigger kit, but the wheel is too wide in diameter and hit the Meziere water pump outlet. So my only option at that point was the MSD 8640. That's where I'm today.

    I have been reading many of your posts and this one below stood out. My system log does not look anything like this guy's: https://forums.holley.com/showthread...-Effect-Sensor
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  10. #10

    Default

    I went back and did the ignition sync process, again. Put the balancer at 50° BTDC, put the crank sensor on the falling edge of the magnet on the wheel. Rotated the engine counterclockwise to 185° BTDC and set the cam sensor at the backside of the magnet (to the left of the magnet). Pics attached. Cranked the enginer and it made some popping noises, but never fired. Posted is the most recent system log. Any help appreciated. Thanks.

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    Last edited by JasonSBF; 09-17-2019 at 10:01 PM.

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