Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 32

Thread: Closed Loop Compensation vs Learn. Need help.

  1. #11

    Default

    I can only find the two readings, TPS & MAP RoC. Am I missing something?

  2. #12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Cadder View Post
    Thank you. About how long is acceleration fuel actually added and does it immediately impact the AFR reading or is there a noticeable delay? Is there a way to see how much fuel the acceleration is actually adding or from each section of those tables?
    Do you have the "Fuel Flow" field added to your datalog? It makes it very obvious where acceleration enrichment occurs. Fuel will spike up when active then drop back down to table values when finished. From what I've seen on drag strip launches, it's mere fractions of a second that AE is active. 0.08-0.1 seconds on my datalogs.

    I believe there has to be a slight delay on the WBO2 sensor reading. Again, we're talking fractions of a second that can only be seen when you zoom in on the datalog to one second intervals. But if you think logically about it, whatever fueling that happens at the Sniper has to travel through the intake, into the cylinder, get burned and travel through some length of exhaust before it hits the WBO2 sensor.

    When you say it's not Learning "at full throttle" do you mean sustained full throttle? I ask because when you just stab full throttle it typically goes out of Learn mode. Again, there's a field in the datalog that show Learn status as on or off. Just look at your datalog and see if Learning is active at the problem spot.
    69 Camaro
    400 SBC, ProCharger D1SC

  3. #13

    Default

    That's what I figured, fractions of a second.

    Yes, I see the added and subtracted fuel in that table. I’ve also seen RoC at 1000%. Is that a maximum? And I see it go negative as well.

    I've floored it and let it try to work the stumble out just the last time out. I did this 10 times and did add acceleration enrichment fuel in between. I got the lean out down to 23.6. Off the top of my head I would say It happens maybe .2 seconds after the RoC is done. And I’ve also just jabbed it, but that’s in neutral. I got it to not stumble in neutral even right from 950 RPM. At which point 1440 cfm is throwing a lot at it. It responds great when I don’t go much past 1/2 throttle or if I just don’t give it all at once. But when I do give it all at once it doesn’t matter what RPM it’s from, it has the same result.

    I use to see that on/off in the datalog, but it’s not there now, and I haven’t been able to figure out why? I just did it was on the fuel table, not Idle/Cold start.
    Last edited by Mad Cadder; 09-12-2019 at 01:08 PM.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Ont. Canada
    Posts
    1,384

    Default

    Giving it throttle slowly or stepping on the throttle will put it into two different parts of the fuel table. And that may be why it works when you give it throttle slowly. You need to manually tune the area of the Base Fuel Table it goes into when you stand on the throttle. Use the Overlay function. The better the Base Fuel Table is tuned, the less Acceleration Enrichment fuel it will need.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    22,683

    Default

    Originally Posted by Danny Cabral
    Quick Datalogger Information:
    Always provide data, not just symptoms. Is the AFR & ignition timing optimized? Overlay the datalog onto your Config File.
    Ensure the Target A/F Ratio table is properly programmed for your engine. Ensure the ECU is "Learning" (Learn Table LINK).
    Scroll through the datalog to the problem area. Then look exactly where this happens on the Base Fuel & Timing Tables. Scrutinize:
    RPM, MAP, MAT, TPS, CTS, IAC, Target AFR, AFR Left, CL Comp, Ignition Timing, Duty Cycle, Fuel Flow, Fuel Pressure & Battery.

    Using the Holley Sniper EFI software (LINK), look at where the live cursor moves to during this occurrence, and
    manually tune that area of the Base Fuel Table (enrich or lean) & Base Timing Table (optimize ignition timing).


    I find the most helpful datalog function, is overlaying the datalog on your Config File.
    I'm in the habit of using the datalog Overlay feature every time I review a datalog.
    Click on "Datalog" (on the top Toolbar), "Activate Overlay", then "Open Data Log".
    You can literally "playback" a recorded event, and watch it as it happened on any screen.
    Minimize (shrink) the datalog window, and move it to the bottom of any Config File screen.
    Then click & scroll anywhere on the datalog, and watch it playback on your Config File (EFI software).
    http://documents.holley.com/techlibr...9r10543rev.pdf (Holley EFI Datalogger Instructions)
    https://forums.holley.com/showthread...s-amp-Datalogs (Datalog Information - Read "NOTES")
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqHO...C6FEA0BB99AF17 (How To Record & Email A Datalog)
    https://forums.holley.com/showthread...7531#post77531 (Closed Loop Datalog Tuning - Posts #2, #4 & #6)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  6. #16

    Default

    You could always experiment with the settings. Why not ramp up the settings to add more fuel? There are two adjustments in particular, the one that affects fuel based on throttle and the other based on MAP.

    Typically you can easily see what needs to be tweaked based on the AFR reading reaction. If it goes lean when you tip the throttle in, that's more on the throttle vs fuel table. This is the squirter size. If it leans out as you aggressively push the pedal, this is more on the MAP vs fuel table, or squirter duration. The goal is to keep the A/F ratio as stable as possible. When you cut the throttle, there isn't much you can do to keep it from going lean. But if the AFR starts to oscillate and hunt, the base fuel may need some more work.

    This is also considering you have your timing dialed in. Set it for best idle vacuum and work the table to ensure max values and advance values match your particular engine combo.

    Another thing is to make sure your plug gaps are good and your ignition system is good. Bad plugs, bad wires, too much plug gap. All this stuff causes misfire. I'd say that whatever your plugs are currently gapped too, close it up by .010" and see what happens.

  7. #17

    Default

    The really bad lean out stumbling or misfiring comes after the acceleration enrichment fuel I went a transferred what it's Learned and compared the datalog at points to see how much fuel it was adding in Closed Loop then added that percentage and smoothed the map. I’ll try this now back to the original acceleration enrichment fuel and see. I also realized the volumetric efficiency peak the Wizard sets continues to climb to the end of the RPM scale far past the torque peak, which as I understand is normally where the volumetric efficiency peaks. After adding the fuel the table now appears to peak much closer to where I know the torque peak to actually occur.

    I'll check plug gap, but I had already lowered it to as I recall .035" maybe .040". New 8.8mm wires new crank trigger distributor & cap, etc.

    I do have the Sniper setup as a 2-Step rev limiter off a normal transbrake button. I wonder if it’s possible that’s being activated somehow, except I don’t see how it'll be active when I punch the throttle? Beside the RPM still climbs way past the setting.

    I'm pretty certain it will be over rich now but I'm hoping the misfire it was having is eliminated as I'm sure it was throwing the Sniper ECU calibration off.

    Does anyone know if having it go into the stumble/misfire condition could cause it not to be able to recover without manually inputting changes?
    Last edited by Mad Cadder; 09-13-2019 at 09:28 AM.

  8. #18

    Default

    Danny, I know you said that the Anti-Reversion plate should be fine to run, but do you think possibly that's part of the reason it’s so slow to Learn? Making just 1-2% correction when the Closed Loop is at 40%? It rained all day yesterday so I haven’t had a chance yet to see if the changes helped.
    Last edited by Mad Cadder; 09-14-2019 at 02:40 PM.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    22,683

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Cadder View Post
    Danny, I know you said the Anti-Reversion plate should be fine to run, but do you think possibly that's part of the reason it’s so slow to Learn?
    No, the Sniper ECU doesn't know the engine has an anti-reversion plate on it. Post your Config File.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  10. #20

    Default

    Here's the one I started with Thursday or did you want the one I just made to try?
    I have three datalogs from Thursday, but was modifying the Config Files while using the same datalog file.
    Some of the rev points where it doesn't go nearly as lean were in neutral.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by Mad Cadder; 09-14-2019 at 03:33 PM.

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
About us
Holley has been the undisputed leader in fuel systems for over 100 years. Holley carburetors have powered every NASCAR® Sprint® Cup team and nearly every NHRA® Pro–Stock champion for four decades. Now, Holley EFI is dominating the performance world as well as our products for GM's LS engine. Holley's products also include performance fuel pumps, intake manifolds & engine dress–up products for street performance, race and marine applications. As a single solution, or partnered with products from other Holley companies - Hooker Headers, Flowtech Headers, NOS Nitrous, Weiand, Earl's Performance Plumbing, or Diablosport - Holley products can give you the edge you need over the competition.
Join us