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Thread: Closed Loop Compensation vs Learn. Need help.

  1. #21

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    Cadder, I thought you had modified the AE Correction vs. TPS? The evenacceleration GCF just looks like the Holley standard one. In the few blips of the throttle that I looked at, the AE is only active for 3 data points and in 1 of the 3 data points the ECU is actually reducing the AE by 83%. Due to the AE Correction vs. TPS setting being 16.7 at that point. Any number below 100 on that table is a reduction in the AE.

    Even having said that your lean issue is probably more related to the Base Fuel Table than the AE because the AE is so short in duration anyway.

    Did you ever add the "Fuel Flow" field to your datalog? Look for areas where that spikes up (due to AE) and look how it quickly dips. Go to the dip points and look what your Closed Loop Compensation is in that area. Then go to that point on the Overlay in your Base Fuel Table and increase the Base Fuel Table accordingly.

    I really think you're going to have to tune this at the track. Given how much power you make, it'll be tough to put it under enough load and for long enough period of time to get good readings. I don't think blipping it at idle is going to give you great driving and racing condition results.
    69 Camaro
    400 SBC, ProCharger D1SC

  2. #22

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    I've tried setting the AE Correction vs TPS at 100% where it tapered below that and it didn’t seem to help. Yes, I have the Fuel Flow added the Overlay is turned on so I have the trace to work with. Is that what your talking about?

    Is it reducing the fuel due to pedal movements? Or just positions? I was assuming that when I see negative percentages it was because I backed off TPS?

    I do have a Config File ready to try that has that Closed Loop fuel added, but instead of just at the points it's adding I added that amount through the RPM range as it’s only seeing part of it.

    I was able to stay on the pedal because when its doing this it’s almost like it’s on a rev limiter. It should have had enough time to get a lot more tune in then just a few percent when the base is apparently off so much

    I'm lucky to have a limited access dead straight industrial road that’s blocked off about 1 1/2 miles off the main road. But even still when I go and play despite being a isolated area I'm drawing attention I don’t want or need. When it catches it runs through the gear like if it was in neutral, if it’s not just frying rubber.
    Last edited by Mad Cadder; 09-14-2019 at 06:03 PM.

  3. #23

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    Yes, the Overlay is what I'm talking about.

    The AE Correction vs. TPS modifies the AE based on where the TPS is at that moment. If the TPS is low, say 0-25% it adds a pretty heavy amount of fuel to the AE. As the pedal gets closer to the floor, the AE Correction lessens the AE shot. At 60% TPS it makes no change and anything higher than 60% it is actually reducing the AE. On one of your blips, the TPS at consecutive data points are 0, 33,92,99 so really only the one at 33 TPS is adding a bunch of fuel.

    Are you sure there's not something else wrong with the engine? You say it's like the car is on the rev limiter, but honestly in the datalog the lean spikes are super short in duration (maybe a tenth of a second) and not all that severe. I have similar spikes on my datalogs for drag strip launches and you can't feel it in the car at all.
    69 Camaro
    400 SBC, ProCharger D1SC

  4. #24

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    Using the term rev limiter was probably not a good way to explain this. The RPM still climbs, just that it’s stuttering. It only does this under certain throttle conditions if I don’t give it all at once, it acts like it should. Once it goes into this situation it eventually catches, but not until it’s close to the shift point. I’ll go back and set AE vs TPS at 100% again. Danny, I posted the Config File as you asked; did you get a chance to look it over yet?
    Last edited by Mad Cadder; 09-15-2019 at 07:35 AM.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Cadder View Post
    Danny, I posted the Config File as you asked; did you get a chance to look it over yet?
    Yes, I just wanted to ensure the Closed Loop & Learn Parameters weren't programmed to prevent Learning.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  6. #26

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    After looking at the files have you seen others where there's such a large difference between Closed Loop fuel while in a state able to Learn and it not make larger changes in the Learn Table after repeated attempts? Do you think the AE Correction vs TPS is causing issues?
    Last edited by Mad Cadder; 09-15-2019 at 10:02 AM.

  7. #27
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    My thoughts are in post #2, especially the in the LINK I posted.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  8. #28

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    Plug gap is at .035" and has been. I did add a bunch of fuel to the base map to approximate what the Closed Loop is adding. And again from basically a idle 1600 RPM with the car rolling 30 MPH or so, it still did the same thing. So I tried it again, but only gave it partial throttle and then floored it. It caught and I let it wind till 1-2 upshift 93 MPH 6500 RPM. It didn’t enter the stumble once, and it caught. Now the Closed Loop is at point subtracting large amounts. It still shows a lean spike followed by some low 9 AFR. The 100% TPS event is 3 seconds. Is this enough time for it to work? From a stop, if I bring the engine up on the brake just above an idle, it does not stumble.

    What I'm wondering is since my idle vacuum is in the low 80 kPa and actually goes up under load as high as 60 kPa, and I see almost zero activity on the AE vs MAP RoC table. Could the problem be from this? I can upload a datalog and Global File if someone would be kind enough to look at them.
    Last edited by Mad Cadder; 09-16-2019 at 10:29 AM.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Cadder View Post
    ...and I see almost zero activity on the AE vs MAP RoC table. Could the problem be from this?
    No, it's normal to see minimal AE vs MAP Rate of Change. The AE vs TPS Rate of Change is the predominate Acceleration Enrichment parameter.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  10. #30

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    If the acceleration enrichment fuel was excessive say enough to flood the engine at low RPM and caused a misfire, would the AFR reading show as lean from that misfire? I know a non-firing cylinder does. It seems I’ve tried everything but that, and since it catches with slowly applied pedal or not a full TPS swing from 0-100 I started thinking maybe just maybe? In looking at the Closed Loop Compensation compared to what it’s Learned I think what’s happening is it sees the high 20s AFR and overreacts, dumps a ton of fuel and then pulls it back out. That may explain the discrepancy?
    Last edited by Mad Cadder; 09-17-2019 at 08:06 AM.

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