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Thread: Closed Loop Compensation vs Learn. Need help.

  1. #1

    Default Closed Loop Compensation vs Learn. Need help.

    I have sections under full throttle that are over 50% Closed Loop Compensation, that after repeated pulls still are only showing 5-6% Learning. And it's still going as far as 23.6 AFR after adding a ton of Acceleration Enrichment fuel while the engine is still going into a total stumble misfire. Why is there such a huge difference and why isn’t the Learning catching up? Should I just add a bunch of fuel to the Base Fuel Table manually?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Cadder View Post
    I have sections under full throttle that are over 50% Closed Loop Compensation, that after repeated pulls still are only showing 5-6% Learning.
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....7531#post77531 (Closed Loop Datalog Tuning - Posts #2, #4 & #6)

    And it's still going as far as 23.6 AFR after adding a ton of Acceleration Enrichment fuel,...
    The Base Fuel Table isn't tuned with Acceleration Enrichment fuel.

    ...while the engine is still going into a total stumble misfire.
    Well that's why the ECU isn't Learning very well.

    Should I just add a bunch of fuel to the Base Fuel Table manually?
    Yes. If you'd like to manually tune the Base Fuel Table (even while the engine is running), read below:
    Left click & drag to select a group of cells, then use the CTRL & Arrow keys (▲►▼◄) to change the highlighted cell values.
    The ▲ & ▼ arrow keys adjust the Base Fuel Table slowly (one tenth at a time). The ◄ & ► arrow keys adjust it rapidly.
    Or you can left click & drag a group of highlighted cells, and right click "Offset Selected" to adjust the entire cell group.

    Sometimes it's best to get help from a professional tuner (dynamometer). They're good at tuning WOT Fuel & timing.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  3. #3

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    I know this isn’t your fault, but what the heck? If I give it throttle slowly it doesn’t stumble, only when I jam the throttle. The misfire is 1000% the Sniper not doing what it’s meant to do. Self Learn I’ve rolled into the throttle many times and it works. Now it doesn’t Learn at full throttle either. Self Learning system doesn’t Learn much of anything. They really should put a huge disclaimer on the product, it’s false advertisement saying it’s self Learns. I’ve never had a carburetor that I couldn’t self-tune, and most times they ran good as they came. I work on and build all my own stuff I don’t let anyone touch my cars.
    Last edited by Mad Cadder; 09-12-2019 at 10:35 AM.

  4. #4

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    From the Sniper EFI manual:
    Learn Parameters
    Overview: This system can operate in a “Learn Mode”. For Learning to be active, the system MUST be operating in a closed loop mode. If closed loop is not operating at a specific RPM or load, Learn will not be active. Also, the coolant temperature enrichment value MUST be at a value of 100 in order for learn to be active.
    Learning and closed loop are not “separate” activities. The Learning “works off of the closed loop”. Meaning, the learning works to reduce the closed loop value to 0. The closed loop control is very fast and will respond instantly to a deviation from the air/fuel ratio. The learn is intentionally slower than the closed loop response. This is done to eliminate “improper learning” that could occur during transient and other operating conditions. Low engine speeds require an engine to be stabilized in order for the Base Fuel Learning to occur. At higher engine speeds, learning is allowed to occur at a much higher speed.
    69 Camaro
    400 SBC, ProCharger D1SC

  5. #5

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    So twenty attempts and it still hasn’t added to it? This wasn’t one or two tries and I gave up. It’s many tries. And it’s still has Closed Loop fuel in the 50s at points. And WOT it’s seen a lot more than 20 times. The Wizard also puts the same Acceleration Enrichment fuel in for a Sniper Stealth with 2.125” throttle bores as the base Sniper. Not to mention, I have no faith at all in chassis dynos.

    Has Holley released any base calibrations for the Sniper Stealth? That might at least help me with the Acceleration Enrichment fuel tables.
    Last edited by Mad Cadder; 09-12-2019 at 11:00 AM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Cadder View Post
    Now it doesn’t Learn at full throttle either. Self Learning system doesn’t Learn much of anything. They really should put a huge disclaimer on the product, it’s false advertisement saying it’s self Learns.
    No! For some unknown reason, your Sniper EFI isn't Learning at WOT. I wish I knew why, but I don't.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  7. #7

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    Is it safe to assume then, what I see the Closed Loop adding is at least close to what where the Base Fuel Table should be modified to? I'm just trying to have to make less attempts while it’s not acting right. I really don’t like jumping on a misfiring engine. It’s not good for things.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Cadder View Post
    Is it safe to assume then, what I see the Closed Loop adding is at least close to what where the Base Fuel Table should be modified to?
    Yes, I'd start there.

    I'm just trying to have to make less attempts while it’s not acting right. I really don’t like jumping on a misfiring engine. It’s not good for things.
    No kidding, that's why I keep suggesting to manually tune that area of the Base Fuel Table.

    I work on and build all my own stuff I don’t let anyone touch my cars.
    You're not working on it. You keep relying on the Sniper to do something it refuses to do.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  9. #9

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    Thank you. About how long is acceleration fuel actually added and does it immediately impact the AFR reading or is there a noticeable delay? Is there a way to see how much fuel the acceleration is actually adding or from each section of those tables?

  10. #10
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    It's all in the datalogger.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

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