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Thread: Off idle, very rich, then lean, then OK. LOL

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
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    Ont. Canada
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    Are you just free revving the engine or are you driving? Make longer datalogs. Seeing the same event multiple times to see if it acts the same can help. Go out and make a two hour datalog, you can zoom into the affected areas. Save a Global File at the end of your run so it shows your Learn.

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by 82GT4ME View Post
    Boy I'm frustrated. LOL. I took a look and can't figure it out. If anyone wants to take a quick look at this datalog, that would be great, if you can find where the extra fuel is. Also attached my Global File:
    https://1drv.ms/u/s!Aq3FhGganMEgh1zU28ihaZrqHdLl
    https://1drv.ms/u/s!Aq3FhGganMEgh112W7IOlIzn0ari
    I looked at these files. Is this just blipping the throttle while standing still? The scaling of the load & RPM axes in the fuel & spark tables is all jacked up. Why aren't the axes the same (they should be). What sort of cam are you using? What kPa does it idle at? Andrew
    IG @projectgattago

  3. #13

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    I'm at a dead stop in gear. Then I leave with very light throttle. Just enough to get the car moving. I looked at the AE charts and found a couple adding fuel. One was AE TPS vs Coolant Temp. It was adding 6% of fuel in the one area. So I guess my big question now is, if there are a couple charts adding fuel, how do you decide which one to modify, or do you just modify them both? I need to do some more reading! Some guys mentioned to disable any of the MAP based Acceleration Enrichment charts and just use the TPS charts. Didn't realize how many options there are for AE!

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Connecticut
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    22,110

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    Originally Posted by Danny Cabral
    EFI Software Help Information/Instructions:
    ‒ On the top Toolbar, click "Help" & "Contents". This opens all Help topics.
    ‒ When navigating the software, click "Help ?", drag it to any parameter and click again.
    ..This automatically opens the definitions for that specific parameter.
    ‒ Tuning information can be read by clicking the F1 key, when you're viewing any screen.
    http://documents.holley.com/techlibrary_199r10544.pdf (Holley EFI Help/Instructions Overview)
    http://documents.holley.com/techlibr...r10546rev1.pdf (Holley EFI Quick Start Guide)
    http://documents.holley.com/techlibr...10555rev17.pdf (Holley EFI Wiring Manual & Diagrams)
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....ents-Read-This (Initial Checks & Adjustments - Read Steps #1-#6!)
    Open the Holley EFI software "Help" Contents ("Help" drop down menu), and read "Step-By-Step Beginners Tuning".
    Ensure the EFI software is set to run as an "Administrator" (right click for Properties/Advanced). Set it and forget it.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: Dominator MPFI & DIS, A/C, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/X-pipe/shorty headers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  5. #15

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    Think I have it figured out now. I was having a hard time knowing the difference between AE vs TPS RoC and AE Correction vs TPS. Danny, some recommend disabling the MAP AE tables and just go off the TPS tables. Is this a good idea?

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Connecticut
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    22,110

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    Quote Originally Posted by 82GT4ME View Post
    Danny, some recommend disabling the MAP AE tables and just go off the TPS tables. Is this a good idea?
    I've personally never done that. This is user-programmable aftermarket EFI, you have to experiment with it. Read this:
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....9444#post29444 (EFI Acceleration Enrichment In Carburetion Terms)
    https://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/s...2&postcount=11 (Related Forum Thread)
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....1379#post61379 (AE Tuning Information)

    The TPS movement is "%/secX10".
    The MAP movement is "kPa/secX10".
    The AE vs TPS & MAP RoC Blanking parameters just set the amount it ignores.
    Before it became adjustable, it was preprogrammed too high in the ECU (ignoring very slow TPS movement).

    The first cell on the AE vs TPS/MAP Rate of Change scales always remain at zero. These first cell values (slight throttle movements off idle) must be tuned in "Accel Enrichment" (Fuel Modifiers>Fuel Control). They're called the "AE vs TPS RoC Blanking" & "AE vs MAP RoC Blanking". In other words, The "AE vs TPS RoC Blanking" and "AE vs MAP RoC Blanking" parameters (in Fuel Modifiers/Fuel Control/Accel Enrichment) are those first zero cells.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: Dominator MPFI & DIS, A/C, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/X-pipe/shorty headers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  7. #17

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    This is all finally making sense now. Sorry for all the questions! I also just discovered I can edit my own datalog screen and pick just what I want to see! Helps a lot. Also used your method of shrinking the datalog screen and playing it back with the cursor to see where on the Base Fuel Table is is reading from! So basically if the Fuel Flow reading on the datalog is larger than cell on the fuel graph, the fuel is coming from one of the AE tables. Sounds so easy once it clicks in your brain and you use the datalog properly.
    Last edited by 82GT4ME; 07-08-2019 at 09:40 AM.

  8. #18

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    Can someone explain how this chart works? For example, if I'm cruising at 7% TPS this chart would enrich my fuel starting at 250%? But if I hold steady at 7%, is there a time where the enrichment stops? I noticed the datalogging dot stays on the same spot (about 233%) the entire time I'm at 7% TPS. But there's no way it keeps adding another 133% over my base fuel for the entire time?


  9. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Connecticut
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    22,110

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    Quote Originally Posted by 82GT4ME View Post
    Can someone explain how this chart works?
    Refer to post #14.

    For example, if I'm cruising at 7% TPS this chart would enrich my fuel starting at 250%?
    Yes, it momentarily modifies the AE vs TPS Rate of Change table based on TPS Position.

    But if I hold steady at 7%, is there a time where the enrichment stops?
    Yes, it's only last seconds (a datalog should reveal the exact time).

    I noticed the datalogging dot stays on the same spot (about 233%) the entire time I'm at 7% TPS.
    Yes, the live cursor is just indicating the TPS Position.

    But there's no way it keeps adding another 133% over my base fuel for the entire time?
    No, it's not continuous.

    Originally Posted by Danny Cabral
    I'm currently using a straight decline (from left to right) "AE Correction vs TPS" curve. The TBI/MPFI four barrel
    throttle body (linear airflow) applications with a 1:1 secondary linkage, use a straight decline (from left to right)
    AE Correction vs TPS curve. The TBI/MPFI four barrel throttle body (linear airflow) applications with a progressive
    secondary linkage, use an S-shaped AE Correction vs TPS curve (adding at left & subtracting at right). The TBI
    injected applications with a progressive secondary throttle linkage, use a center spiked AE Correction vs TPS
    curve where the secondaries begin to open (and secondary injectors begin spraying). The mono blade throttle
    bodies use a ramp (quarter pipe) shaped AE Correction vs TPS curve (see LSx base calibrations). Also, I settled
    on an "AE vs TPS RoC Blanking" value of 4 (large mono-blade throttle bodies may need it lower), and an "AE vs
    MAP RoC Blanking" value of 5. Ensure there's no TPS/MAP RoC signal activity at idle, due to noise/kPa fluctuation.
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....9444#post29444 (EFI Acceleration Enrichment In Carburetion Terms)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: Dominator MPFI & DIS, A/C, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/X-pipe/shorty headers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  10. #20

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    I did a lot of playing today and realized the problem is opposite what I was thinking. My initial thought was that the AE was causing a rich spot then the system was trying to over correct and go too lean. After all the help from Danny and others, I was able to pull fuel out of the AE on initial tip-in. The result was the problem got worse. Ends up I should expect to see a slightly rich spike on initial tip-in. Problem I think is I'm not getting the AE long enough. I tried changing the fuel in the cells, but there are several situations the cursor uses that area causing problems in different situations. So my hopefully last question. How do I make the AE of initial tip-in last longer? On a carb we would change the squirter size so it takes longer for the shot to empty. This is the effect I'm after.

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