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Thread: Crank trigger signal problems!

  1. #1

    Default Crank trigger signal problems!

    I have the Dominator ECU and running a crank trigger ignition. ECU sometimes gets a signal and sometimes it doesn't. The touchscreen shows stall when there is no signal and RPM when it decides to work. Thanks for any help in advance.

  2. #2
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    Please inform us of which crank trigger kit this is, and the crank sensor air gap (.030", .040", .050", .060", etc.).
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  3. #3

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    The crank trigger is an MSD on a BB Chevy. The air gap has been set at .045"-.065". The car starts and runs at both and loads in the trailer, and then unloads fine 5 hours later. No signal from crank sensor to ECU and have to load her with a winch. Any insight on this would be appreciated!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ol Betsy View Post
    No signal from crank sensor to ECU and have to load her with a winch.
    There's the problem. An EFI system won't run without a crank signal. It could be either sensor losing signal. If a regular datalog
    indicates an "RPM Error" when scrolling through the problem area, then it's time for a System Log to confirm which sensor flatlines.

    Record a System Log to verify crank & cam sensor signals. Check mark the "RPM", "Crank" & "Cam" channels. Look for a uniform,
    uninterrupted crank or cam sensor signal pattern. The crank or cam sensor signal should never flatline (no pulse) or indicate an
    RPM "Error" anywhere. Also, fully charge the battery and ensure the engine is cranking fast enough, at least 100+ RPM. Another
    common issue, is trying to analyze a compressed view of a long System Log. Zoom In for detail - click & hold at one point of the
    datalog, and drag & release to another point nearby. It's best to record short System Logs/Datalogs that capture the problem.
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....s-amp-Datalogs (Datalog & System Log Information)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  5. #5

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    Thanks. There is no cam sensor, but I'll try to run a System Log tomorrow on the crank sensor. How temperature sensitive is the sensor; it seems to work in the AM better than in the afternoon?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ol Betsy View Post
    There is no cam sensor, but I'll try to run a System Log tomorrow on the crank sensor.
    Then you've already narrowed it down to the crank sensor.
    Are you using Holley's 554-118 direct replacement Hall-Effect crank sensor (¾"-16 threaded sensor) for the MSD Flying Magnet crank trigger kit?
    http://documents.holley.com/199r10633rev.pdf (Holley 554-118 Instructions)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  7. #7

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    I swapped out the MSD for the Hall-Effect and still no improvement. What is the minimum battery voltage for the ECU to operate with the crank trigger sensor? Also, what are the different scenarios where the Holley Dominator ECU can shutdown the ignition such as TPS Autoset, low battery voltage?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ol Betsy View Post
    I swapped out the MSD for the Hall-Effect and still no improvement.
    Did you make the necessary changes in the Custom Ignition Parameters?

    Custom Ignition Parameters for MSD Flying Magnet 4x crank trigger & Holley 554-118 Crank Sensor:
    Ignition Type ............. ― "Custom"
    Crank Sensor Type ..... ― "1 Pulse/Fire" (← Holley 554-118 crank sensor LINK.)
    Sensor Type .............. ― "Digital Falling" (← Hall-Effect sensor.)
    Inductive Delay .......... ― "adjusted per application" (← Synchronization info.)
    Ignition Reference Angle ― "50° or 60°" (← Crank sensor setup LINK.)
    Cam Sensor Type ........ ― "Single Pulse" (← If sequentially injected or CNP ignition.)
    Sensor Type .............. ― "Digital Falling" (← Cam sensor setup LINK.)
    Output Setup Type ..... ― "Points Output" (← Loose white wire CDI box trigger.)
    Dwell Time ................ ― "2.0 msec" (← Do not set this to 1.5 msec!)

    What is the minimum battery voltage for the ECU to operate with the crank trigger sensor?
    I'm not really sure, but I'd say about 8 volts. Recharge the battery, remove the charger, then try starting.

    Also, what are the different scenarios where the Holley Dominator ECU can shutdown the ignition such as TPS Autoset, low battery voltage?
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....5760#post45760 (Scroll down to "Typical No-Start Checks".)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  9. #9

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    Thanks Danny that gives me a lot of helpful information to work with.
    This is how the tune came to me from Force Fuel Injection:
    Ignition Type - Custom
    Type - 1 Pulse/Fire
    Inductive Delay - 1.0 usec
    Sensor Type - Magnetic
    Minimum Signal Voltage - 0.35V
    Ignition Reference Angle - 38.0°
    Filtering - 1
    Cam Sensor type - Not Used
    Ignition Setup Type - Points Output
    Dwell - 1.8 msec

    The Ignition Reference Angle I set at 38.0° because the way the engine builder mounted the crank trigger. I can only move the sensor to 38.0° there's not enough travel in the MSD bracket.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ol Betsy View Post
    The Ignition Reference Angle I set at 38.0° because the way the engine builder mounted the crank trigger. I can only move the sensor to 38.0° there's not enough travel in the MSD bracket.
    That doesn't sound good. The ECU needs an Ignition Reference Angle, so it can control the timing. The Ignition Reference Angle needs to be at least 10° higher than the maximum amount of timing used (in the Base Timing Table).
    http://www.masterenginetuner.com/top...all-fails.html (Crank Reference Angle Importance)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

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