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Thread: Terminator X Max - Ignition timing temperature modifiers don't behave as expected.

  1. #1

    Default Terminator X Max - Ignition timing temperature modifiers don't behave as expected.

    I'm using a Terminator X Max, a 7" Digital Dash, and I'm tuning it via a CAN-To-USB cable on my laptop.

    I'm confident that my sensors are working correctly, but the timing modifiers for temperature do not work the way I would expect them to. I have a live display of actual ignition timing, inlet temp, and coolant temp on my dashboard. I can see that the car idles at 190°F coolant temp and about 100°F inlet temp, and about 19°-20° of timing. If I go into the timing modifiers and edit the cells for either 140° inlet temp, or 260° coolant temp, I can actually SEE the timing change, even though the car is NOT running anywhere near either of those two values (and even the little red MAP tracing dot in the software is hovering right where I expect).

    In short, I have reason to believe that the car is always applying timing modifiers based on 140° MAT & 260° ECT, regardless of what I do, and I can actually see the impact of this in real time if I edit those cells with my laptop. Other functions that rely on ECT, such as the fans, function EXACTLY how I expect them to. But the ignition timing? Nope.

    Since this car is turbocharged, I'd really like to have MAT-based timing modifiers to protect the engine. This is very frustrating.

  2. #2

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    Based on how the axis scaling is setup, I suspect that the MAT & ECT modifiers are using the axes defined in System Parameters --> Sensor Scaling/Warnings, rather than the ones that are displayed on their respective tables. This actually would explain WHY it was specifically those temperatures and not any others; my Coolant Temperature timing modifier cell for 190°F corresponded to the Sensor Scaling axis for 260°F. I'll test this across a wider range of actual temperatures once the engine has had time to cool off. Why are the axes on those graphs editable if it's just going to cross-reference back to the scaling definitions in the System ICF? This seems like either a bug, or a very bad design decision on Holley's part.
    Last edited by lemming; 06-16-2019 at 02:20 PM.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemming View Post
    Why are the axes on those graphs editable if it's just going to cross-reference back to the scaling definitions in the System ICF? This seems like either a bug, or a very bad design decision on Holley's part.
    That does seem strange because in the V5 EFI software, the Timing vs Coolant Temperature & Timing vs Manifold Air Temperature tables don't have editable temperature axes. You may want to contact Holley Tech Service (LINK) about this.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: Dominator MPFI & DIS, A/C, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/X-pipe/shorty headers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  4. #4

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    I have confirmed through testing that the ECU sure seems to ignore the axes on these tables and just use the default sensor scales from the System ICF. If I make the axes on these tables look like the sensor scales, then it actually behaves the way I expect it to. I'll see if I can get this reported as a software bug, because it clearly is. Check this out. It's what you get when you load a tune generated by the handheld into the software. It goes from -40°F to 999°F.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Compare this to the actual sensor scale in System ICF. It goes from -40°F to 260°F.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Basically, what this means is that, by default, the timing offset for a 200°F coolant temp comes from the 791°F column in the table. This also means that I was running 9° of timing advance on the dyno yesterday, instead of the expected 15°, which probably explains where that 100 HP went.
    Last edited by lemming; 06-16-2019 at 08:17 PM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemming View Post
    I have confirmed through testing that the ECU sure seems to ignore the axes on these tables and just use the default sensor scales from the System ICF. If I make the axes on these tables look like the sensor scales, then it actually behaves the way I expect it to. I'll see if I can get this reported as a software bug, because it clearly is.
    Yes, that doesn't seem right with the Terminator X EFI software (see post #3).
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: Dominator MPFI & DIS, A/C, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/X-pipe/shorty headers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  6. #6

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    I've obviously figured out how to work around this, but I'll try to get tech support to report it as a bug to whoever maintains that EFI software. Considering that the Terminator X stuff has only been out for a couple of months, I'm actually somewhat impressed that this is the worst bug I've found so far. I'm used to fighting with factory ECUs and reflash tools, and those are always a party.

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