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Thread: Base Fuel Table under Learn temp?

  1. #1

    Default Base Fuel Table under Learn temp?

    I noticed on my datalogs that I’m adding fuel in Closed Loop warmup from a cold start. Since the Learning doesn’t start until 160°F does that mean I would need to add fuel in the After Start Enrichment? The goal here would be to get my Base Fuel Table closer, so I wouldn’t have to rely on Closed Loop to get up to temp. That way if the WBO2 sensor ever goes bad I can still warm up and get home?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radarsonwheels View Post
    I noticed on my datalogs that I’m adding fuel in Closed Loop warmup from a cold start. Since the Learning doesn’t start until 160°F does that mean I would need to add fuel in the After Start Enrichment?
    No. Tune the Coolant Temperature Enrichment % table. Read post #2 of this link:
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....6254#post36254 (Good Starting Advice Thread - Especially posts #2, #4 & #6.)

    The goal here would be to get my Base Fuel Table closer, so I wouldn’t have to rely on Closed Loop to get up to temp. That way if the WBO2 sensor ever goes bad I can still warm up and get home?
    Never alter or tune the Base Fuel Table for cold engine operation.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: Dominator MPFI & DIS, A/C, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/X-pipe/shorty headers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2500 RPM converter, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  3. #3

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    If you pay attention to the CL Comp numbers you can adjust the enrichment tables to get you dead on. For example, if CL is adding 30% then just go make the Coolant Temp Enrichment table 130%. The A/F Ratio Offset table does the same thing and works with CL.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by andyf View Post
    If you pay attention to the CL Comp numbers you can adjust the enrichment tables to get you dead on.
    It's all in the post #2 LINK: http://forums.holley.com/showthread....6649#post66649 (Coolant Temperature Enrichment % Table Tuning)

    For example, if CL is adding 30% then just go make the Coolant Temp Enrichment table 130%.
    That's incorrect. The +30% CL Comp would be added to whatever the current Coolant Temperature Enrichment % table value is above 100%. 100% is the neutral factor, nothing added.
    Example using current Coolant Temperature Enrichment % table value of 117%: 17 + 30% CL Comp = 22.1, so you'd enter 122% in that table cell. The math is applied to 17, not 117.
    It obviously wouldn't be 100%, because the base calibrations are only at 100% at 160°F & higher (as it should be since Coolant Temp Enrichment isn't required at normal operating temp).

    The A/F Ratio Offset table does the same thing...
    Not really. It doesn't work off of percentages, and there's no 100% neutral factor. It simply adds or subtracts from the Target A/F Ratio table by the amount the user programs.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: Dominator MPFI & DIS, A/C, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/X-pipe/shorty headers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2500 RPM converter, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  5. #5

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    Wow, thanks guys. I started by looking at my datalog and saw a high of around 150% Closed Loop Compensation on a cold start. The existing coolant temp curve apparently isn’t rich enough. The Closed Loop Compensation crosses back to 100% around 110°, so I looked at smoothly ramping up the cold enrichment below 110°.

    I hadn’t seen Andy’s reply, but I was thinking along the same line that I would need 150% at 80°F (my seasonably warm cold start temp), down to an unaltered curve above 110°. But that would've been such a steep ‘curve’ and such a great change, that I decided to be more conservative and just ramp the existing curve up a bit. I figure with the Closed Loop I don’t need to do a bunch of math to nail it on the first try. As long as I don’t make radical changes, I can keep nudging the values until it shows a much smaller Closed Loop Compensation under Learn temp.

    Of course after I had done that and copied my new renamed config file to the “Saved GCFs” file, put my SD in the 3.5" and switched on the ignition the configs screen only showed my original config in the “Saved GCF” file in FW0101. So I went back into the laptop and put another copy of my new “512tune3.sniper” GCF in the “Saved GCF” file along with my “4150_4_ZBA.sniper” file. It still didn’t show up.

    So knowing how to tune the EFI parameters is turning out to be pretty useless, until I can see the file on the SD card so I can download it to the ECU.

    Oh, and apologies for using the wrong terminology in my first post. By Base Fuel Table I only meant the settings and tables before they are adjusted in Closed Loop. Of course “base table” is a specific thing not connected to tuning under Learn temp! I still have a ton to learn. Thanks again.

  6. #6
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    In the time it took you to write all that, I could've properly tuned the Coolant Temperature Enrichment % table (datalog & calculator on about six cells). And the Sniper EFI Coolant Temperature Enrichment % table doesn't even have a MAP kPa axis. It's an easy 16 cell table (single row), and it's 100% (zero enrichment) from 160°F & higher, so you're only tuning eight cells at the most (just blend in the -40°F & -20°F cells). The Terminator, HP & Dominator EFI systems have a 128 cell Coolant Temperature Enrichment % table.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: Dominator MPFI & DIS, A/C, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/X-pipe/shorty headers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2500 RPM converter, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  7. #7

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    Yes, it was simple to move the curve up a little in the necessary area. But I still can’t get anybody to tell me how to save the new GCF to the SD card so that the 3.5” TSLCD will see it and make it an available selection so I can upload it to my ECU.

  8. #8

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    50% CL Comp is a lot of fuel to be adding at 80°F so that leads me to think that your Base Fuel Table is probably lean. You might want to get the engine warm and verify that the Base Fuel Table is correct. It should idle with no enrichments and very low percent CL Comp & Learn if the Base Fuel Table is correct at idle. Once you know how much fuel your engine requires at idle, then you can go build the cold enrichment tables.

    I don't know the reason why you can't find the file on your SD card. Radar is having the same problem. Could be a software glitch or perhaps you both are making some sort of file handling error. Try to load a known good Sniper tune (get one from the Holley website) and see if that works. If your ECU can't find a known good tune on your SD card, then you might need to do a reflash. Perhaps something got hosed up somewhere.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radarsonwheels View Post
    Yes, it was simple to move the curve up a little in the necessary area.
    No, I'm referring to doing it the right way, using simple math.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: Dominator MPFI & DIS, A/C, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/X-pipe/shorty headers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2500 RPM converter, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Radarsonwheels
    Of course after I had done that and copied my new renamed config file to the “Saved GCFs” file, put my SD in the 3.5" and switched on the ignition the configs screen only showed my original config in the “Saved GCF” file in FW0101. So I went back into the laptop and put another copy of my new “512tune3.sniper” GCF in the “Saved GCF” file along with my “4150_4_ZBA.sniper” file. It still didn’t show up.
    If you save to the "Saved GCF File" you're saving it to your computer not the SD card. Do a SAVE AS, then locate the SD card on your computer, open it and locate the FW0101 folder there and do a save. I usually save in both places so I have a backup on my computer.

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