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Thread: Issues after MSD cam sync plug & Flying Magnet installed.

  1. #1

    Default Issues after MSD cam sync plug & Flying Magnet installed.

    Hey, need some help here. SBF engine. MSD cam sync plug with MSD Flying Magnet trigger wheel, Holley crank sensor. So on physical setup I got the engine on 50° BTDC on compression stroke, cylinder #1. Installed the crank trigger. Sensor has .035" air gap and I had the magnet pointing on the top edge of sensor (Digital Falling). Now for the cam sync I spun engine CCW to get to 185° BTDC and placed the cam sync plug in. Turned power on. LED light was off. Rotated housing CCW till LED came on. Then back CW till LED light came off (Digital Falling).

    So here’s the weird part. When verifying Cranking Timing of 15°, timing light wouldn’t work on cylinder one. Verified coil, wire, plug, harness. All was getting signal & spark. Checked other cylinders and the timing light would flash. So for giggles I changed Ignition Parameters to Digital Rising. Would you know it then the timing light flashed for cylinder one. On to check Cranking Timing. Timing requested at 15° and was seeing 20. So pushed the sensor on crank trigger up to retard. Finally got 15° crank.

    Plugged fuel injectors in. Went into EFI software and disabled Idle Spark control, set check static timing at 25°. Went to verify and still only see 15°. But car fired over and idled halfway decent. Went & started adding Inductive Delay all the way up to 60 usec and still timing on the light only shows 15° with no change. Final step was to change Ignition Parameters back to Digital Falling and try to crank. When I did there was a backfire. So gave up and taking a break at this point.

  2. #2
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    I can't explain it any better than this:
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....m-Sensor-Setup (Crank & Cam Sensor Setup)
    http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...0#post26386690 (Incorrect Digital Falling Signals - 4x Crank & 1x Cam)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: Dominator MPFI & DIS, A/C, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/X-pipe/shorty headers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2500 RPM converter, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  3. #3

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    The software when using the MSD cam sync plug needs to be set to Digital Rising. There's a lot of talk about that on the Holley EFI Discussion page.

    The Inductive Delay will have almost no effect at idle RPM, so it's no surprise that you didn't see any changes there. That's only for later at higher RPM.

    The initial 15° setup is just to get you close, actual timing must be set after the engine is running. If you go back to Digital Rising and adjust the crank trigger to get the timing using Enable Static Timing, with the engine running, you'll be fine.

  4. #4
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    I'm using the MSD cam sync oil drive plug set to Digital Falling (Custom Ignition Parameters), and it works great on my SBF with a 36-1 crank trigger kit.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: Dominator MPFI & DIS, A/C, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/X-pipe/shorty headers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2500 RPM converter, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  5. #5

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    I think the issue is with the duration of the cam sync signal and where the edges occur. I've had several customers that had issues. One was at the track when I was there, so I played around. I could leave the setting at Digital Falling - IF I rotated the cam sync a little, but if the customer followed the MSD instructions exactly, he had to use Digital Rising. I never even looked at the degrees on the balancer.

    After that first issue, I had another case when trying to diagnose an ignition issue at high RPM, I simply moved the cam sync, while the engine was idling, until it quit. Marked the base with a sharpy. Moved it back, restarted and went the other direction until it quit, and made a second mark. Then I set the cam sync to the mid point. Problem is gone and it's been running great ever since. I may write something up once I have time to scope a system and measure what's really going on.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastmanefi View Post
    I could leave the setting at Digital Falling - IF I rotated the cam sync a little, but if the customer followed the MSD instructions exactly, he had to use Digital Rising. I never even looked at the degrees on the balancer.
    When I installed my MSD 85221 cam sync oil pump drive plug, I followed the Holley EFI Crank & Cam Sensor Setup instructions LINK in my post #2, not the MSD 85221 cam sync instructions. I don't use the LED light. I remove the top cover (four cover 5/32 Allen bolts) and cam sensor (two collar 5/32 Allen bolts), scribe a mark on top of the shaft in alignment with the magnet, then position the falling edge of the magnet with the cam sensor at 190° BTDC degree mark on the damper (on #1 cylinder compression stroke).

    Problem is gone and it's been running great ever since. I may write something up once I have time to scope a system and measure what's really going on.
    This might be explained in the 2nd link of my post #2, which requires reviewing a System Log.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: Dominator MPFI & DIS, A/C, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/X-pipe/shorty headers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2500 RPM converter, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  7. #7

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    Thanks for the replies. So after reading all that, I see to set the crank parameter as Single Pulse & Magnetic. Cam trigger to Single Pulse & Digital Rising?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by SICK_FOX View Post
    So after reading all that, I see to set the crank parameter as Single Pulse & Magnetic.
    What? You stated you're using the Holley EFI crank sensor. (Holley 554-118 instructions: LINK.) If so, it's set to Digital Falling, not Magnetic.

    Cam trigger to Single Pulse & Digital Rising?
    Personally, I never want to use Digital Rising. Long story, but Digital Falling is a cleaner signal. Years ago, I proved it to myself datalogging.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: Dominator MPFI & DIS, A/C, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/X-pipe/shorty headers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2500 RPM converter, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  9. #9

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    Danny, I’m using the MSD Flying Magnet with the Holley pickup sensor.

  10. #10
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    I know what you're using! It's not a magnetic pickup, it's a Hall-Effect sensor. You've setup the Custom Ignition Parameters wrong. The Holley EFI 554-118 Hall-Effect crank sensor is not set to Magnetic, it's set to Digital Falling. The instructions even state "Digital Falling is recommended".
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: Dominator MPFI & DIS, A/C, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/X-pipe/shorty headers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2500 RPM converter, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

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