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Thread: Big & Ugly 8-71 440, 10 injectors. Starts, but won't run.

  1. #1

    Angry Big & Ugly 8-71 440, 10 injectors. Starts, but won't run.

    Hey guys. I have a Chrysler 440, 8-71, 10 injectors on top if the supercharger with a Big & Ugly hat. No timing control CD box. Currently using the base calibration for the 383 supercharged 14 Lbs of boost.
    No matter what I do, I cant seem to keep the thing running. I will up the Base Fuel Table and open the throttle blades a little more on each start attempt. But still, won't run longer then 1-2 seconds.
    It did run once, I think it was just a fluke. I think I may have forgot to do another TPS Autoset because it started and went right to 5,000 RPM.
    Only thing that looks weird is the WBO2 shows SLOW!, Init..., then Heating with the yellow LED and never shows a AFR with key-on/engine-off.

    Anyway here's as far as I've got:
    Originally Posted by Danny Cabral
    Typical No-Start Checks (Some of these don't pertain to Sniper EFI):
    -Is the battery fully charged?
    Yes.
    -Have you performed a TPS Autoset?
    1,000,000 times after each start with opening the blades, NO IAC.
    -Is the engine cranking fast enough (100+ RPM)?
    150-260 I think is about average I've seen.
    -Does the Data Monitor display legitimate cranking RPM?
    Yes.
    -Does the Data Monitor display legitimate sensor values?
    Yes, only wanky one is the WBO2.
    -Does a Datalog indicate any RPM Errors?
    No.
    -Is the throttle blade(s) open far enough to start?
    I think so, There are 3 4-3/4" blades, like i said it start, just wont run
    -Are the crank & cam sensor/reluctor air gaps set correctly?
    None.
    -Do the crank & cam sensors have power & ground?
    None.
    -Keyed +12V red/white wire powered when cranking?
    Yes.
    -Fuel pressure set to proper psi (Actual System Pressure)?
    Yes, 43.5.
    -Are the fuel injectors spraying fuel?
    Yes, it starts.
    -Does the fuel pump prime for 5 seconds at key-on?
    Yes.
    -Is the ECU controlling timing?
    NO, 6AL is with Mallory Distributor.
    -Does a timing light indicate there's spark/ignition?
    Yes.
    -What does your ignition system consist of?
    Mallory Dist, 6AL Box.
    -Correct Ignition Type entered in Ignition Parameters?
    Yes, the CD box with NO timing control
    -Are the spark plugs fuel fouled/wet?
    No, actually they are usually caked in a black powder.
    -Is the ignition timing synchronized with the ECU?
    N/A
    -Are you running in sequential mode? If so, check the cam sync sensor.
    No, Bank-To-Bank.
    -Air or Coolant Temp Enrichment Modifiers erroneously set to 0% or 70%?
    No.
    -The engine won't start if the throttle is opened beyond the "Clear Flood TPS" setting.
    No, during TPS Autoset its 0% and I have Clear Flood at like 35%-50%.
    -Is it correctly wired as shown in the wiring manual? (Holley EFI Wiring Manual - LINK)
    Yes.
    -Disconnect the ECU Main Power Harness for 20 minutes. This "resets" some unusual ECU issues.
    Same result.
    Starting Issues - initially starts, but stalls immediately after:
    -When it stalls, how does it die?
    Not consistent on how it dies, but it starts and sounds like it is going to rev up, but dies on the way up. 90% of the time it starts and dies by the time I let go of the start switch. like that fast.
    -If engine stalls several seconds after starting, tune the Coolant Temperature Enrichment Table or After Start Decay Rate.
    No, won't stay running that long.
    -May also be caused by using the wrong base calibration for the MAP sensor in use (Base Fuel Table excessively lean or rich).
    No, I changed it to a 3 BAR MAP like the Holley one I have.
    -Adjust the idle speed screw on throttle body, to achieve an IAC Position of about 2% at hot idle.
    There is no IAC, just the BAU.
    Last edited by Taxmanth; 02-26-2019 at 08:45 AM.

  2. #2

    Default

    Consider a remote connect with a tuner (like me, LOL! efiexpert.com).

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Taxmanth View Post
    Currently using the base calibration for the 383 supercharged 14 Lbs of boost.
    No, I changed it to a 3 BAR MAP like the Holley one I have.
    Well there's your problem. If you have a 3 bar MAP sensor, you need a 3 bar MAP base calibration.
    The "Turbo LSx 364ci 850HP 20PSI DBW 4L80E WM" and "383-434ci Turbocharged 30 psi Gas" are 3 bar base calibrations.
    The "302 Ford Turbo", "555 BBC Turbo" and "350-383ci Supercharged 14psi" are all 2 bar base calibrations.

    It can be done with a 1, 2 or 3 bar base calibration, but you'd have to copy & paste the 3 bar MAP
    base calibration Base Fuel & Timing Tables onto your Global Folder. Read this LINK for more information.
    Selecting the correct MAP sensor does not rectify the wrong Base Fuel & Timing Tables. Here's an excerpt from the link I wrote below.
    Originally Posted by Danny Cabral
    Remember, the base calibration you start with, must correspond to the MAP sensor you're using:
    For example, you can't use a naturally aspirated base calibration for a forced induction engine.
    This is because the 2,3,5 bar MAP sensor selection only changes the kPa load Y-axis, but not the Base Fuel Table lb/hr
    values (creating an excessively lean map) or the Base Timing Table degree values (excessively advanced timing map).
    You must choose a 2,3,5 bar base calibration or reconfigure your existing Global Folder's Fuel & Timing Tables accordingly.
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....ents-Read-This! (Initial Checks & Adjustments - Read This!)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: Dominator MPFI & DIS, A/C, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/X-pipe/shorty headers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2500 RPM converter, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  4. #4

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    If it’s that easy I'll kick myself. Then I’ll buy all the beers. I’ll get after it this weekend. EFI guy, how do I do that?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    Connecticut
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    It is that easy. It's been the resolution many times on this forum.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: Dominator MPFI & DIS, A/C, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/X-pipe/shorty headers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2500 RPM converter, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  6. #6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Taxmanth View Post
    EFI guy, how do I do that?
    I do one to two remote tune sessions every day. You install the free version of Team Viewer on your laptop, we get you on my schedule, when you call me I connect to your laptop and while we talk on the phone, and you watch while I build & tune your engine. It's really good training for you as well. You need high speed Internet where the car is. No fee until we are done. $300 fee. More details on my website: efiexpert.com/Tuning Help.

  7. #7

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    OK well it still starts & dies, BUT on every 3rd attempt or so. It will start & run, but it goes right to red line. Good part is that I have the MSD box to have that at 3,700 RPM. While it's running I try & lower the Base Fuel Table by 1%, but it just dies. I don't have an IAC nor computer controlled timing. Just the Big & Ugly injector hat.

  8. #8
    Join Date
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    Connecticut
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taxmanth View Post
    It will start & run, but it goes right to red line.
    What? The RPM goes to maximum?
    https://forums.holley.com/showthread...400#post104400 (Rev Limiter Verification Feature Disabled)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: Dominator MPFI & DIS, A/C, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/X-pipe/shorty headers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2500 RPM converter, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  9. #9

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    Yeah, that’s right. First start attempt. Runs for two sec and dies. Second attempt. Putts & putts then starts and runs for two seconds and dies. Third attempt. Starts and revs right to the redline. Tach is yellow, barking at me to shift and the Holley tach, on the computer, is parked at 3,978 RPM. So I find the orange cursor on the fuel table, highlight it. And drop it by 1%. Car dies.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    21,430

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    You'll need someone to help tune this with you. It seems there may be more than one problem.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: Dominator MPFI & DIS, A/C, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/X-pipe/shorty headers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2500 RPM converter, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

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