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Thread: Brand new, old guy, questions:

  1. #1

    Default Brand new, old guy, questions:

    Just picked up a Commander 950 TBI, used.

    I only have the printed hardware / install manual, no wiring diagrams

    The only wiring I've found at Holley seems to be the "pro" system - is the wiring the same?

    How do I ID the firmware in the box? Can I just power it up, hook up the computer and read it? It's not encoded onto an ID tag?

    How do I ID the throttle body size? I found a post indicating that the 900 cfm is 1 3/4, these are about that, so there's nothing between 1 1/2" and 1 3/4"?

    I may (try to) run this on my 318, and this may be oversized for that engine. What if anything can I do there?

    I also have a used 2bbl 2D system. If I can overcome the connector differences can I run the 2bbl body with the 950 computer, or should I consider disabling the 2 rear barrels?

    I have a 360 "on the burner" but don't know when that might be ready. I'm 64, have arthritis, and work pretty slowly, sometimes.

    The girl in question: Craigslist engine, A-727, seats, tach, and GPS. Actually the CAR came from Craigslist. Ford Versailles 3.89 disk brake rear, soon to be late disk front. Mild little mechanical cam, 650 Edelbrock, Performer RPM.


  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    22,903

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    Quote Originally Posted by 440roadrunner View Post
    The only wiring I've found at Holley seems to be the "Pro" system - is the wiring the same?
    Yes, the wiring is the same between the C950 Pro and earlier non-Pro versions. It's a software/firmware upgrade.
    You can download the C950 manual (with wiring diagrams) and the latest software here:
    http://www.holley.com/TechService/Li...#FuelInjection (Scroll down to "Commander 950")

    How do I ID the firmware in the box? Can I just power it up, hook up the computer and read it? It's not encoded onto an ID tag?
    Click on the About & Version tab (with the key-on) to find your current software & firmware versions.
    Your C950 software version must be compatible with your C950 firmware version:
    1.xx software = 1.xx firmware
    2.xx software = 2.xx firmware
    3.xx software = 3.xx firmware

    The firmware in your C950 ECU can only be updated by sending the ECU to Holley.
    The newest software & firmware will operate a narrowband or wideband O2 sensor.
    I highly suggest Holley's own 534-197 WBO2 sensor kit; it's "plug & play" with the C950 harness:
    http://www.race-mart.com/Holley_Perf...L-534-197.html

    How do I ID the throttle body size? I found a post indicating that the 900 cfm is 1 3/4, these are about that, so there's nothing between 1 1/2" and 1 3/4"?
    The 900 cfm TBI throttle body has 1¾" bores, and actually flows about 850 cfm with the injector pod.
    The 700 cfm TBI throttle body has 1½" bores, and actually flows about 650 cfm with the injector pod.
    Holley TBI units are CFM rated the same way as four-barrel carburetors (1.5 in/Hg). (Two-barrel carburetors are rated at 3.0 in/Hg.)

    I may (try to) run this on my 318, and this may be oversized for that engine. What if anything can I do there?
    Fuel injected engines don't suffer from oversize throttle bodies like carbureted engines do, because the fuel can always be properly metered to the amount of air entering the engine. Fuel injected engines don't rely on engine breathing (venturi effect) for proper fuel metering.

    I also have a used 2bbl 2D system. If I can overcome the connector differences can I run the 2bbl body with the 950 computer, or should I consider disabling the 2 rear barrels?
    If you have a C950 TBI unit, use it.


    I'd like to ask one important question, "Do you know how to tune the main Fuel Map of an EFI system?"
    Be honest. If you don't, you really need the HP EFI, because the C950 requires you to know how to tune.
    It's not an easy task with the C950, and most likely, not worth the grief or the money saved.
    http://www.holley.com/types/HP%20EFI...ess%20Kits.asp (HP EFI ECU & Harness Upgrade Kits)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  3. #3

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    Thanks VERY much. You confirmed some of "what I think I knew."


    No, LOL, I honestly do NOT know how to tune a map, so I'll look into that link

    UPDATE Last night I built a serial cheater cable. This was a serial cable off an old Sharp organizer I no longer have, so I just cut the end off and hard wired the cable into the holley serial connector. I successfully powered up the ECU on my bench power supply, and got the software (which it came with) to connect, and was able to read some of the data.

    So it appears the ECU at least is healthy to that extent. May be some time before I get this on the car. Happy to learn the throttle body should be OK even on the small engine.

  4. #4

    Default

    Understanding that I'm getting a little old, have arthritis and a not too good back, I "threw" the 950 at the Dart today, and got it fired!!! Main reason for a "sloppy" install, as this is used, was to find out that it actually will function, and if this looks like something "I can do." I "do" think so.

    This was a used system, so I just used the file in the computer. I think tomorrow I'll try a TBI-2 file and see how that goes.

    Cold idle was way way too high, hot idle a little high but reasonable. I didn't drive it as it was pouring rain.

    I did try a few "throttle hits" with the brakes on in 1st (TorqueFlite) It doesn't die when you kick at the throttle, and sounds responsive. Seems like it's pretty rich, but I'm not that far along.

    Yeah......it's ugly, LOL




    and the 81 cent sensor bung, LOL. I was in my chair the other day, and realized I had no sensor bung. I knew the local parts stores were a waste of time, called a muffler shop and they wanted 11 bucks!!!

    So I hauled the sensor down to the local fastener store, and sure enough they had 18mm x whatever thread for 81 cents each!!! Then up to the parts store for an old (D-16 Champion) plug for a, well, "plug."


  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    22,903

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    Quote Originally Posted by 440roadrunner View Post
    I think tomorrow I'll try a TBI-2 file and see how that goes.
    I would not do that. According to Holley Tech, the TBI/MPI1-6 are "theoretical base maps" and are horrible starting points.

    Did you ever positively identify which TBI unit you have? It's important to know which size injectors you have, so a proper base map can be chosen.
    From the picture, it appears to be the 700 cfm TBI unit. If so, it has four 65 lb/hr injectors. The 900 cfm TBI units have either 75 or 85 lb/hr injectors.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  6. #6

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    "She's" in the mail getting flashed up by Holley. According to the info you posted about bore size, this is the 900 cfm, and in fact, the original destructions (hardware installation) which came with it had the 900 CFM unit highlighted in the first few pages of the manual.

    I'll take a look when I get time and see if I can ID the injectors.

    What do you suggest I use for a starting file?

    This at present "was" a 70's factory stock 318 with the following changes: Headers, a mild solid cam about the equivalent of a 340 "stick" cam, and Edelbrock Performer manifold, and Edelbrock 625/650 carb. It runs great with that combo, around 15--17* initial advance, about 34--36 total without vacuum, although I do run vacuum.

    The only map listed in the new software for the 900 cfm unit is TBI-7503, which sounds quite a bit hotter than the engine I have

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