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Thread: No spark, no start.

  1. #11
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    Nov 2014
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    Ont. Canada
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    I'm running a 383 SBC.
    I have never looked inside a Holley dual sync distributor, but if it's like the Accel, does it have the lights that flash when it senses a signal. If it does you could remove the distributor cap and crank the engine to see if it's picking up the signal consistently.
    Last edited by 81 TransAm; 09-12-2018 at 08:12 PM.

  2. #12

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    The whole system was purchased in May. The distributor is a 565-107, which they have suddenly stopped making. I'm wondering if there was a problem with that model?

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Connecticut
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    Contact Holley Tech Service (LINK), you might have a defective distributor.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.

    '78 BRONCO: 508" stroker, TFS heads, 11:1 comp ratio, Dominator MPFI & DIS, cold air induction, Spal dual 12" fans/aluminum radiator, dual 3" exhaust/Magnaflow mufflers, Moroso vacuum pump, Accusump, engine oil & trans fluid coolers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, A/C, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2500 RPM converter, 3:1 Atlas II, modified Dana 44/60-lockers-4.10s, hydroboost/4-disc brakes, ram-assist/heim joint steering, Cage long radius arms, traction bars, 4" Skyjacker lift, 35" mud tires

  4. #14

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    They also believe it is a defective distributor. I've tested and retested and moved power and ground wires for both the Holley unit and the MSD box. Pulled the distributor for about the 5th time, went back through the timing process and NADA. So that's where we are now. Mark Luhn from Luhn Performance Inc. is overnighting a new distributor to me since Holley is out of stock until Mid October. Mark really goes out of his way to help customers.

    If it gets here tomorrow, which is a big if, due to us being in Charleston and having most roads in have been blocked for evacuation purposes for 2 days, I'll put it in immediately and see if she will fire up. I've got the dash completely out again so I'll have to remount it all. I'd do that today but I don't want to jinx it. LOL

    UPDATE #1: The new distributor came in. The original version 1 model was dropping the crank signal just as 81 TransAm & Danny Cabral determined. I installed the new unit, which looks to be a far superior product, and the engine fired on the first try. It ran for about 15 seconds, very roughly and then shut off. It started on the next try and didn't want to idle, but could be coaxed to run by feathering the throttle. I'm pretty sure it's running very rich, but thought I'd ask the experts here to look at the datalogs from the startup this morning and make their recommendations. The engine is a Pontiac 535 making over 700 HP when dynoed on the Pro Systems carb built for it.

    The startup produced a lot of smoke which I assume is from running rich. I'm not very good yet at reading and properly interpreting these datalog files. For example, System Log 9182232.sl shows a continuous crank & cam signal, but between 3.5-4.5 seconds there is a blank space on the crank sensor. Is this an EFI software glitch or did the crank signal drop out for that time? Also, the logs are set to be 15 seconds long, but sometimes they are much shorter, like 3-4 seconds total, even though I tried to start the car for 10 seconds or more. I'm sure most of this is user error, so pointers will be appreciated! Thanks in advance. Doug Camburn

    UPDATE #2: 091918 system logs.zip Data Logs DL files from 9-19-18.zip DLZ files from 9-19-18.zip Hefi File from 9-19-18.zip
    Here are the latest datalog files. The engine finally starts, but idles very rough. I have to keep it around 1300 RPM just to keep it from shutting down. It's hard to get the idle timing set, since I can't get a low enough RPM to make sure it's correct. I smell a lot of raw gas, so that's where I'm at now. Any advice would be much appreciated. Doug

    UPDATE #3: Last couple of changes & datalog files. I took the switch wire off the solid state relay I have for my switched power feed under the dash, and connected it directly to the same wire that I hooked the MSD CDI box up to. It runs to a switched terminal on the Ron Francis express fuse box. I also ran the other ECU hot wire to the battery. It's not fused but the main feed wire is fused. Both are terminated on the battery terminal itself. This seemed to help, but the engine is still stumbling pretty badly. I can't get it to accelerate without stumbling the entire time. Can any of you read these two datalogs from this morning and give me a hand?
    Attached Files Attached Files

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
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    Ont. Canada
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    Have you unplugged the injector harness, and then cranked it over to check the ECU commanded timing matches the timing you see at the crank with the timing light?

  6. #16

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    I was able to get a reading of 10° during the last several running events which are in the attached datalog files. I wasn't able to get a good reading on it at higher RPM, since it was hard to keep it running.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  7. #17
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    Nov 2014
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    Ont. Canada
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    Now that you're getting cam & crank signals, you don't need to keep making System Logs. A normal datalog is what needs to be looked at now.

  8. #18
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    Connecticut
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    Originally Posted by Danny Cabral
    Quick Datalogger Information:
    Always provide data, not just symptoms. Is the AFR & ignition timing optimized? Overlay the datalog onto your Global File.
    Ensure the Target A/F Ratio table is properly programmed for your engine. Ensure the ECU is "Learning" (Learn Table LINK).
    Scroll through the datalog to the problem area. Then look exactly where this happens on the Base Fuel & Timing Tables. Scrutinize:
    RPM, MAP, MAT, TPS, CTS, IAC, Target AFR, AFR Left, CL Comp, Ignition Timing, Duty Cycle, Fuel Flow, Fuel Pressure & Battery.

    Using the Holley EFI software (LINK), look at where the live cursor moves to during this occurrence, and
    manually tune that area of the Base Fuel Table (enrich or lean) & Base Timing Table (optimize ignition timing).

    I find the most helpful datalog function, is overlaying the datalog on your Global File.
    I'm in the habit of using the datalog Overlay feature every time I review a datalog.
    Click on "Datalog" (on the top Toolbar), "Activate Overlay", then "Open Data Log".
    You can literally "playback" a recorded event, and watch it as it happened on any screen.
    Minimize (shrink) the datalog window, and move it to the bottom of any Global File screen.
    Then click & scroll anywhere on the datalog, and watch it playback on your Global File (EFI software).
    http://documents.holley.com/techlibr...9r10543rev.pdf (Holley EFI Datalogger Instructions)
    https://forums.holley.com/showthread...s-amp-Datalogs (Datalog & System Log Information - Read "NOTES")
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqHO...C6FEA0BB99AF17 (How To Record & Email A Datalog)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7OZUXLRS1Q (How To Record A System Log & Diagnose A No-Start Condition)
    https://forums.holley.com/showthread...7531#post77531 (Closed Loop Datalog Tuning - Posts #2, #4 & #6)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.

    '78 BRONCO: 508" stroker, TFS heads, 11:1 comp ratio, Dominator MPFI & DIS, cold air induction, Spal dual 12" fans/aluminum radiator, dual 3" exhaust/Magnaflow mufflers, Moroso vacuum pump, Accusump, engine oil & trans fluid coolers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, A/C, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2500 RPM converter, 3:1 Atlas II, modified Dana 44/60-lockers-4.10s, hydroboost/4-disc brakes, ram-assist/heim joint steering, Cage long radius arms, traction bars, 4" Skyjacker lift, 35" mud tires

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by 81 TransAm View Post
    Now that you're getting cam & crank signals, you don't need to keep making System Logs. A normal datalog is what needs to be looked at now.
    OK. I wanted some clarification on the System Logs. The crank & cam signal sometimes seems to not be there. There are white lines. Though they are small blips, I was wondering if that is something to be concerned about. Can one of you take a look? I realize the big white gaps were between start attempts because I didn't turn the key all the way back, but the other lines concern me. I'll see if I can post a photo if needed, but it would be one of the System Logs from the 11am set today that I posted earlier.

    I'm also going to bump both the ECU and the distributor to 15°, which is where we had it before. Here's link to the actually specs on this engine. I picked it up right after the Northwind testing was done. The Northwind manifold they mention in the article is the same one I had modified by Mark Luhn for this EFI installation. At this point, it's the only one in the country, but after seeing his work, he's already getting requests for more: http://www.sdperformance.com/newsStory.php?newsID=53
    Last edited by DOUG62; 09-20-2018 at 03:26 PM.

  10. #20

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    Latest Update: Turns out I needed to replace the MAP sensor. I went and got a GM 1 bar MAP sensor and it worked much better. I also got it idling much better by setting the computer and the distributor to 15° instead of 10°. I used 15° on my MSD Pro Billet and had no issues.

    So now I'm ready to take it out and start getting the tune right. I backed it out onto my driveway and let it run a few minutes. When I pulled it back in I noticed it left two nice black spots where the exhaust was blowing on the white pavers. Definitely a little rich.

    I set it up to run datalogs, but forgot to sync it, so it kept writing System Logs. It's now set up to do datalogs. I've attached the latest System Logs. Datalogs coming tomorrow as I work through this thing.
    Attached Files Attached Files

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