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Thread: Let me help you with Injector End Angle.

  1. #1

    Default Let me help you with Injector End Angle.

    I'm starting a project on how to optimize IEA for the Holley units. Results have been very positive so far. Here's a few threads to read:
    Here's S2H explaining why the Holley calculator is flawed
    S2H explaining how to manipulate the calculator to get the results you want
    81TransAm on how he calculates IEA so that the beginning is at exhaust close avoiding overlap
    Me thinking out loud why IPW is better than MAP for the Y axis
    Combining all of the above (read both posts)

    My spreadsheet in the link above is very simple. You can change any value on the X-axis (RPM) & Y-axis (IPW). You can also change the exhaust close and it will push around the whole table. So far a few people have tried the IPW as Y-axis method with positive results, and a few others have tried my specific tables with positive results. Here's one guy that went from an IEA of 0° everywhere, which is rather extreme, to my Advanced Tables:
    https://forums.holley.com/showthread...rget-AFR-Table
    There's even before & after datalogs, all false lean spikes are GONE.

    So if you guys want I can make advanced tables for you. The example on the Holley site should work if your exhaust valve close @ .050" is around 9 ATDC. Here's what you need for my strategy to work:
    - Injectors that atomize well.
    - Full sequential.
    - Holley HP or Dominator V4 or newer.
    - Two empty Advanced 2D Tables (not by gear).
    - I can do one 2D Table but two gives a lot more resolution.
    - Cars driven on the street will benefit more than all out race cars.

    Here's what I want from you:
    - Current Global File, fuel table does NOT need to be accurate.
    - Datalog that matches current Global File, various loads & speeds.
    - Cam specs @ .050".
    - Injector distance to intake valve.
    - An IEA table that is tuned is really nice, especially dyno tuned on the top end, the better your table is the closer mine will be.
    - Relearn the base fuel map after my IEA changes (it will change especially idle & cruise) and send it to me with another datalog.

    Here's what to expect:
    - Drastically reduced raw fuel smell at idle.
    - Much better off idle performance.
    - Better tip-in.
    - Cooler temperatures, but your mileage may vary.
    - Closed loop will work better, you may be able to increase advanced control.
    - Even if your base fuel map is highly tuned, it will pull fuel in areas.
    - You might be able to reduce AE fuel.
    - You might be able to reduce Startup & Coolant Temp Enrichment.
    - Overall street mannerisms should improve.
    - False lean spikes in your datalogs gone.

    I'm also going to do a few things with every Global File I get:
    1) Add AE MAP FUEL & AE TPS FUEL under internal inputs, so you can see how much fuel these add in your datalogs in lbs/hr.
    2) Possibly rescale your Base Fuel Table on the bottom row. Many people have 0 or 1 for MAP there. Makes converting to VE look awful. I will also plug in reasonable numbers on that row.
    3) Transfer Learning To Base WITHOUT smoothing, then if it needs smoothing I will do it manually. You can do this first if you want.

    Post a recent datalog & Global File here in a zip. If you want to email instead: allansi400@gmail.com
    Last edited by allan5oh; 07-07-2018 at 07:40 AM.

  2. #2

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    V5 graphs look so much better than V4! Thanks Holley!

    Attachment 3347
    Attachment 3348
    This car spikes the wideband to 28.3 (maximum) every time the throttle is shut quickly. Which is a false lean yet the fuel map is NOT rich in that area. What else could it be? Hmm I wonder? Let's do the IEA and find out!
    Last edited by allan5oh; 07-07-2018 at 08:02 AM.

  3. #3

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    Hope this works.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by TBART1970 View Post
    Hope this works.
    Sent it to your email!

  5. #5

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    What kind of mad genius are you? I’ve been tuning and fine tuning my Cuda’s engine for about two years. I was happy with the way it was running. I thought I had a solid understanding of how to tune my engine. And then, you came along and changed everything. I looked at the changes you made and, to be honest, I still don’t understand it. But, I know that my Cuda is running even BETTER. It’s smooth like glass. The A/F Ratio that bounced around a bit during idle is now really smooth. I drove the Cuda for 40 minutes to let the engine temp get into the operating range and let the Learning kicked in and the Learning leaned out the Base Fuel Table even further. How did you even figure out how to do this? I’m totally impressed and extremely grateful.
    I love it!

  6. #6
    Join Date
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TBART1970 View Post
    Hope this works.
    What do you use to pull crankcase vacuum?

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by 81 TransAm View Post
    What do you use to pull crankcase vacuum?
    Jones Racing vacuum pump: http://www.jonesracingproducts.com/2...ndex.html#p=35
    Last edited by TBART1970; 07-07-2018 at 06:54 PM.

  8. #8

    Default

    Allan, I would like to say thank you. You have done what two tuners failed to do. I noticed right from the start it was pulling fuel.
    Driving down my street it would surge, that is almost gone. Also on the highway at 2000 ish RPM, it would have a slight surge, that is almost gone. I noticed that when I shift gears (5 speed manual) it transitions much better, upshifting & downshifting. (no lean or rich spikes I guess?)
    It definitely has more power, or at least better optimization of fuel. Also from a dead stop, it felt better taking off.

    I always had a stalling issue, I worked out most of it, but it would still do it when it was hot and the fans were on full at idle after driving it for a while and coming to a stop. It did not do that. Also idle is a little higher & smoother, IAC was at 0%. I will need to adjust base down a touch, but what a difference. Again thank you. If there are any other suggestions, I'm game. I will try and send the datalogs next. They're long.

    This mornings drive:

  9. #9

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    Let's get that surge at 2000 RPM figured out!

  10. #10

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    I agree. Any experience with higher ignition timing and leaner AFR at highway cruise for better economy? (I know 548 ci & 740 horsepower does not spell economy). I'm trying to look at the data and decide at what kPa range to make changes to. I won't do this until I let it Learn for a while with the new IEA table. Next time I drive it, I'll change the Advanced Control to 3. I'll only make one change at a time (trying not to shoot myself in the foot again). What do you think of the AFR table in general?
    Last edited by TBART1970; 07-08-2018 at 08:13 PM.

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