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Thread: Let me help you with Injector End Angle.

  1. #71

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    Possibly a dumb question: What are you doing when the spreadsheet calculates a number greater than 720? Holley EFI software won't go above 720. Do I subtract 720 from those cells?

  2. #72

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    I do not use any positive numbers. Out of the two processes I use (spreadsheet and manipulated Holley calculator with fuel table at 0), I take whichever number is more negative. Hope that helps!
    Last edited by allan5oh; 01-03-2019 at 04:02 PM.

  3. #73

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    This may help. Not specifically Holley, but most of the concepts still apply: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLcsaLWKZMk

  4. #74
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    That's a very interesting video. Thanks Andy W.
    www.HowEFIWorks.com (HowEFIWorks.com - Master EFI Yourself, Andy Whittle)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/3000 RPM converter, FPP aluminum driveshaft, FPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 MT tires.

  5. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by whittlebeast View Post
    This may help. Not specifically Holley, but most of the concepts still apply: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLcsaLWKZMk
    Nice video Andy. Those that watched it, 360° represents -180° in the Holley EFI software. For that Honda engine, Andy indicates it would like probably around -220° to -200°. No doubt this has to do with the little overlap of the non VTEC cams. I have more than a few cases now where small cams just don't seem to benefit from my method.

  6. #76

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    I actually had the numbers in that video backwards, but the concepts are the same. Give the engine what it wants based on testing. Andy

  7. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by allan5oh View Post
    Those that watched it, 360° represents -180° in the Holley EFI software.
    Hi @allen5oh. Is 360° crank actually -180° or +180° in HEFI terms? I ask because I've been struggling a bit with fine tuning my engines IEA settings to where it seems to like it for off idle, and part throttle through WOT response. However, I can't seem to get the (idle, short circuiting) raw fuel smell to go away with (I assume) my rather large duration/overlap cam specs. I'm using -135° HEFI in my idle columns presently and think I may need to go more more towards -100° (the HEFI -71° ICL) when all is said and done, but been proceeding very carefully.

    In the HEFI Injector End Angle HELP topic it shows that graph with ABS Crank Degrees at top, and HEFI Relative at the bottom where 360° Crank lines up with +180°. I guess I'm confused on the +/- piece, any clarification/advice you can give would be appreciated. Thanks for your time! My IEA Cam Specs and Table are also attached, if that helps.




    HP EFI V4, 388cid Stealth Ram, 1000 CFM 58mm throttle body, Holley Dual Sync Distributor. LS Coil Near Plug, 1 bar MAP, 48 lb/hr Holley EFI injectors, 43 psi

  8. #78

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    In Andy's video he is referring to 360° as 0 absolute or -180° HEFI in your pic. At least I think he is. So it's a third metric. No huge deal, just as long as we understand what we're dealing with. Another issue is cylinder balance, I have a customer with a very similar cam (434 SBC on methanol) and his engine idles amazing for such a large cam. His intake manifold and injectors are very well balanced. That plays a role in the smell too.

    You're targeting -135° (45° after TDC) as the *end* of the injection event all around the idle and off idle area, regardless of the width of the pulse. The width can change due to cranking fuel, warmup, and AE fueling. MAP as Y-axis doesn't compensate for that. Give this a shot, make sure to zero out your current IEA table and put these 2D Advanced tables in (#1 & #2) make sure to copy the X & Y axes exactly.
    iea numbers.zip

  9. #79

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    I wanted to add this. It's just my lovely paint skills on that above chart. It's a visual representation of what happens with my method. The purple area with the lovely spray paint is the injector pulse vs duty cycle & crank degrees.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by allan5oh; 01-04-2019 at 01:25 AM.

  10. Default

    Thanks for the info @allan5oh! Car is currently up on stands for the winter, working on some other stuff, but I'll try out your Advanced Tables next time I have it out for a drive. I should leave all the top section settings of the IEA table as is when using your two ADV IEA tables, correct? (Cam/Valve Timings, Inj Placement, Phase Offset, etc.), or should Inj Phase Offset be reset to 0° along with the entire IEA (Map vs RPM) table zeroing out?

    If it wasn't for the smell, it actually idles pretty stable at 880-900 RPM as it is now. I suspect I may ultimately need to add some high flow cats to clean it up more.



    Just added a heat shield to get a sort of quasi cold air intake going, had to relocate the EVAP canister, but I think it's a much better setup than previous. See pic below.

    Do you take on any (paid) remote tuning work? I may want to do some of that come spring if you're so inclined to review and optimize a few other things. Feel free to PM me if that's an option. Thanks!

    HP EFI V4, 388cid Stealth Ram, 1000 CFM 58mm throttle body, Holley Dual Sync Distributor. LS Coil Near Plug, 1 bar MAP, 48 lb/hr Holley EFI injectors, 43 psi

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