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Thread: Terminator running very rich.

  1. #1

    Default Terminator running very rich.

    Well this car has set all winter and only been started a few times in the last 5 months.
    It's a 383, 4-speed car with headers and a decent cam.
    Terminator EFI was installed about two years ago and besides a fuel pump issue early on, has run very well.
    Last summer an ignition module went out, replaced it and ran fine till this spring.
    So now it starts, runs rough, black smoke from exhaust all the time. Can't get engine above 2000 RPM as it just can't burn all the fuel going in.
    Oh yeah, it's rich is an understatement. After test driving it just a few miles it was about two quarts overfull in the crankcase.
    It does go into closed loop.
    WBO2 reads 16 or higher, on part of the test drive the WBO2 sensor read 35 on the handheld device.
    I captured a data log and when looking at it with Holley software the WBO2 never goes lower than about 16 and spikes higher to 35.
    A Holley tech, after looking at the data log says he thinks it's an air leak into the header before the O2 sensor.
    That could be, but the engine ran fine last fall, now it doesn't.
    I think the WBO2 sensor is bad or the ECU is bad?
    I'd like for some one knowledgeable to check out this attached datalog file and comment please.

  2. #2

    Default

    I'm no expert, but I do know that if there's even the tiniest of an exhaust leak, any EFI system will not work well.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    22,986

    Default

    Check the fuel pressure, exhaust leak upstream of WBO2 sensor, or if the WBO2 sensor (or other sensor) has failed and corrupted the Learn Table.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  4. #4

    Default

    Fuel pressure was MIN=40 psi, MAX=44 psi, AVE=43 psi.
    How do you tell if a sensor has went bad?
    How to determine if Learn Table is corrupted?
    Have you looked at attached file? Thanks for any help!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
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    Ont. Canada
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    1,431

    Default

    You did not post your Global File. My first though would be your WBO2 sensor is bad. The WBO2 trace does not change when you lift off the throttle. I would expect to see a little change on the WBO2 trace at this point if there was an exhaust leak. Doesn't mean it is, but I would look at it first. What's happening is the WBO2 is reading lean. So the ECU tries to enrich it up, but it can't because the WBO2 is reading lean. And to add to the problem, you did not reduce your CL & Learn Limits once it was done Learning. So now it is adding 150% fuel with the Learn and another 100% with the CL. Do you have a "known to be good" Global File saved? If you do, load it in and then turn the CL & Learn off. If you don't have a saved Global File, you can clear the Learn Table and then turn the CL & Learn off. It may not run the best this way, it depends on how close your initial tune (base calibration) was at in the beginning. If the crankcase is full of fuel you will need an oil change, and the plugs are probably fouled as well.
    Last edited by 81 TransAm; 03-20-2018 at 08:53 PM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    22,986

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by overdriv View Post
    Fuel pressure was MIN=40 psi, MAX=44 psi, AVE=43 psi.
    That fuel pressure seems correct.

    How do you tell if a sensor has went bad?
    View the Data Monitor for erroneous readings.

    How to determine if Learn Table is corrupted?
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....1842#post61842 (Learn Table - Diagnostic/Troubleshooting Tool)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  7. #7

    Default

    I don't know what a Global File looks like, so I probably didn't save one. So I will get a new WBO2 sensor. Can I just start over somehow?
    Thanks so much for the help. I do not own this car, but installed the Terminator for my friend. So I don't get a lot of time to learn much about tuning.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Connecticut
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    Quote Originally Posted by overdriv View Post
    So I will get a new WBO2 sensor. Can I just start over somehow?
    Read the 4th paragraph under "Wideband O2 Sensor Notes": https://forums.holley.com/showthread...ension-Harness (WBO2 Sensor Information)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  9. #9

    Default

    Can I buy a WBO2 sensor locally, or do I need to buy from Holley $$$?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    22,986

    Default

    The Terminator, HP & Dominator EFI use a proprietary Holley EFI WBO2 sensor, specifically made & calibrated for Holley EFI. The Terminator EFI is supplied with a Holley/Bosch LSU4.2 WBO2 sensor (LINK).
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

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