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Thread: Excessive battery voltage, TPS floating & rich fuel.

  1. #1
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    Default Excessive battery voltage, TPS floating & rich fuel.

    I'm having rich start issues with fuel being dumped excessively. The engine starts fine and cold idles at 1200 RPM for a second, and then fuel immediately begins to dump into the TB for some reason. It doesn't happen every time, but based on the datalogs, it correlates with the TPS floating between 1-2% at idle and having excessive battery voltage. I typically have battery voltage range between 14.1-14.5 volts. When it runs goofy, the voltage is always above 15.2. When it idles normal, the TPS is at 0% and voltage is in the low-mid 14s. I've had the battery and alternator checked out, made sure no ignition wires are running next to each other, grounds look good. TPS sensor was replaced. Any thoughts here?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by 66FSTBK View Post
    The engine starts fine and cold idles at 1200 RPM for a second, and then fuel immediately begins to dump into the TB for some reason.
    Does the RPM display spike high erratically when this occurs? Which ignition distributor is this? Looking at your past forum threads, you've had fueling issues for a long time.

    It doesn't happen every time, but based on the datalogs, it correlates with the TPS floating between 1-2% at idle and having excessive battery voltage.
    Which EFI software/ECU firmware version is this? The IAC Hold Position is activated at 1% TPS Position in V3, 2% in V4, for 0% TPS idle return issues.
    Seems like AE is being falsely activated, which is already too rich in Terminator EFI base calibrations. Perform another TPS Autoset when engine is hot.
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....5760#post45760 (Determining EFI Software/ECU Firmware Versions)

    I typically have battery voltage range between 14.1-14.5 volts. When it runs goofy, the voltage is always above 15.2.
    It seems you have a defective (alternator) voltage regulator.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.

    '78 BRONCO: 508" stroker, TFS heads, 11:1 comp ratio, Dominator MPFI & DIS, cold air induction, Spal dual 12" fans/aluminum radiator, dual 3" exhaust/Magnaflow mufflers, Moroso vacuum pump, Accusump, engine oil & trans fluid coolers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, A/C, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2500 RPM converter, 3:1 Atlas II, modified Dana 44/60-lockers-4.10s, hydroboost/4-disc brakes, ram-assist/heim joint steering, Cage long radius arms, traction bars, 4" Skyjacker lift, 35" mud tires

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Cabral View Post
    Does the RPM display spike high erratically when this occurs?
    Sometimes there is a surge, but mostly when the fuel is dumped, the RPM drops significantly and the engine dies on occasion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Cabral View Post
    Which ignition distributor is this?
    MSD TFI & MSD 6A CDI box.

    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Cabral View Post
    Looking at your past forum threads, you've had fueling issues for a long time.
    I went about two years or so without a single issue and then began having problems. I replaced the WBO2 sensor once or twice since I've had the system (4 years now). I don't recall the issue off top, but the new WBO2 fixed it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Cabral View Post
    Which EFI software/ECU firmware version is this?
    V3

    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Cabral View Post
    The IAC Hold Position is activated at 1% TPS Position in V3, 2% in V4, for 0% TPS idle return issues.
    Seems like AE is being falsely activated, which is already too rich in Terminator EFI base calibrations. Perform another TPS Autoset when engine is hot.
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....5760#post45760 (Determining EFI Software/ECU Firmware Versions)
    I will do a hot TPS Autoset.

    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Cabral View Post
    It seems you have a defective (alternator) voltage regulator.
    Alternator tested bad, so I took it to the auto electric shop and they put a new regulator in it. Still having this issue.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by 66FSTBK View Post
    Sometimes there is a surge, but mostly when the fuel is dumped, the RPM drops significantly and the engine dies on occasion.
    I was referring to the RPM channel (numerical) display on the Data Monitor/Datalogger.

    MSD TFI & MSD 6A CDI box.
    Don't be surprised if the Ford TFI ignition module is intermittently failing.

    V3
    The IAC Hold Position is activated at 1% TPS Position in V3, 2% in V4, for 0% TPS idle return issues.

    I will do a hot TPS Autoset.
    Yes, I always perform a TPS Autoset on a hot engine.

    Alternator tested bad, so I took it to the auto electric shop and they put a new regulator in it. Still having this issue.
    You'll have to get this fixed. "Above 15.2V" is too high. Which alternator is this? The Ford 3G 160 amp alternator is one of the first upgrades I did.
    http://www.pvv.org/~syljua/merc/TooSeptST07.pdf (Alternator AC Ripple Voltage Test)
    http://assets.fluke.com/appnotes/aut...e/beatbook.pdf (Fluke Multimeter Testing - Page 3 & 4)
    https://forums.holley.com/showthread...0251#post50251 (Related Forum Thread)
    FYI: It's not safe to run an alternator with the wiring disconnected; remove the alternator belt (safe alternator test).
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.

    '78 BRONCO: 508" stroker, TFS heads, 11:1 comp ratio, Dominator MPFI & DIS, cold air induction, Spal dual 12" fans/aluminum radiator, dual 3" exhaust/Magnaflow mufflers, Moroso vacuum pump, Accusump, engine oil & trans fluid coolers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, A/C, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2500 RPM converter, 3:1 Atlas II, modified Dana 44/60-lockers-4.10s, hydroboost/4-disc brakes, ram-assist/heim joint steering, Cage long radius arms, traction bars, 4" Skyjacker lift, 35" mud tires

  5. #5
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    Narrowed down some things here:
    1. The issue definitely corresponds to the excessive voltage reading on the handheld.
    2. It seems to affect the TPS reading, which is causing the fuel dump.
    3. I replaced the regulator in the alternator. Same issue. Replaced the alternator. Same issue.
    4. I tested the voltage at the battery and it read ~14.3 volts, then looked at the handheld and it was ~15.3 volts.
    5. I'm definitely getting a false reading to the ECU.
    6. Did voltage drop tests on all grounds and they're all good. Battery is good. Post and all connections are clean.
    7. Handheld is freezing up and have to cycle the engine a couple times to get it to reset. On occasion, the handheld will pop up on the boot screen and say something about rebooting and no files on ECU. Again, have to cycle the engine to reset it.
    8. Replaced TPS.
    9. Turned the throttle screw a half turn clockwise. Performed a TPS Autoset. Then turned the throttle screw counter-clockwise back to its original position. This “tricked” the ECU to not allow the TPS to exceed 0% at idle when the volt readings are high (false reading). No fuel dumping issues with this, even with high volt readings on handheld.

    With all of the process of elimination, I’m now leaning toward an ECU issue? Thoughts?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by 66FSTBK View Post
    4. I tested the voltage at the battery and it read ~14.3 volts, then looked at the handheld and it was ~15.3 volts.
    5. I'm definitely getting a false reading to the ECU.
    What's the voltage at the alternator charge post/terminal, and where does this cable connect to?
    Ensure the EFI (laptop) software, ECU firmware & touchscreen unit are all V4 compatible (LINK).
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.

    '78 BRONCO: 508" stroker, TFS heads, 11:1 comp ratio, Dominator MPFI & DIS, cold air induction, Spal dual 12" fans/aluminum radiator, dual 3" exhaust/Magnaflow mufflers, Moroso vacuum pump, Accusump, engine oil & trans fluid coolers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, A/C, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2500 RPM converter, 3:1 Atlas II, modified Dana 44/60-lockers-4.10s, hydroboost/4-disc brakes, ram-assist/heim joint steering, Cage long radius arms, traction bars, 4" Skyjacker lift, 35" mud tires

  7. #7
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    Voltage at the alternator charge post is the same as at the battery. That charge wire connects to the battery side of the solenoid on the fender apron. I have not upgraded anything to V4.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by 66FSTBK View Post
    I have not upgraded anything to V4.
    I meant ensuring everything is on the same software/firmware versions.
    Personally, I'd update to the V4 EFI software/ECU firmware (V4.0.32).
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....2193#post72193 (EFI Software/ECU Firmware Problems)

    EFI Software Problems:
    Often times, when EFI software related functions don't work properly, it's caused by a corrupted software download/installation.
    I suggest completely removing the Holley EFI software from the "Control Panel", "My Documents" (Holley folder) and the
    "C:Drive" (Program Files, Holley folder) and install a fresh EFI software download. Save your Global Folder somewhere.
    ECU Firmware Problems:
    Conversely, often times, when actual ECU related functions don't work properly, it's caused by a corrupted ECU firmware installation.
    As a last resort, you can try reflashing the ECU firmware version (LINK). The ECU firmware is in with the software download (LINK).
    Also, try completely disconnecting the battery for 20 minutes. This "resets" some unusual ECU issues.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.

    '78 BRONCO: 508" stroker, TFS heads, 11:1 comp ratio, Dominator MPFI & DIS, cold air induction, Spal dual 12" fans/aluminum radiator, dual 3" exhaust/Magnaflow mufflers, Moroso vacuum pump, Accusump, engine oil & trans fluid coolers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, A/C, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2500 RPM converter, 3:1 Atlas II, modified Dana 44/60-lockers-4.10s, hydroboost/4-disc brakes, ram-assist/heim joint steering, Cage long radius arms, traction bars, 4" Skyjacker lift, 35" mud tires

  9. #9
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    I had the battery disconnected for about an hour a week or so ago, so I could get it tested. I guess that didn’t work. Looks like a software & firmware update are in order.
    EDIT: I had a successful firmware upgrade on both the ECU & handheld. Got the Global Files converted to V4. Everything powered up when I turned the key on. Too late to fire it up tonight, but will give it a try tomorrow. Crossing my fingers.

    No luck. Three of the four starts were excessive voltage on the handheld and 1-2% TPS at idle. Idled super rich. One of the four was normal voltage & 0% TPS. Idled at normal AFR. I’m at a loss here. Could this be the MSD 6A CDI box?

  10. #10

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    I wonder if some of the alternator current is feeding through the ECU sensor wiring.

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