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Thread: Help with no start/no spark CNP setup.

  1. #1
    Join Date
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    Bakersfield, CA
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    Default Help with no start/no spark CNP setup.

    Hello all, I'm looking for some help on my first startup. The project is a N/A 1995 Mustang with a 347 stroker. I removed all factory ECU wiring and the ECU, installed the HP EFI with a Universal Main Harness, a Universal CNP harness, 8 MSD Street Fire coils, and a FAST Dual Sync distributor. I unplugged the injector harness to check cranking timing and I get no spark with my timing light on plug wire #1. I took a System Log and a normal datalog. I'm seeing approx 135 RPM while cranking on the digital Gauge Panel in the V4 EFI software. The System Log indicates that my crank & cam sensors are registering. I've attached screen shots below. I searched the forums multiple times and couldn't come up with a solution. I went through the initial startup sequence again to double check everything. I followed Danny's instructions on installing the FAST Dual Sync including changing the Firing Order and all other Ignition Parameters. I verified continuity of the CNP harness on each EST output to its respective cylinder. The EST grounds are all tired together to the EST ground ECU pin. The red/white wire is +12V hot while cranking, black wire is grounded. Fuel pump primes no problem. All fuses checked and none blown. Coils have +12V while cranking from a relay fed from battery. Coil chassis ground is connected to back side of cylinder head. I'm thinking that I have no EST signal from the ECU. I tried to measure it while cranking, but I think it pulses too fast for my meter to register. I've also gone through Danny's typical no start checklist and indicated my results below. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Sorry for the long post. I don't want to waste anyone's time, so I gathered as much info as I could.

    • Typical No-Start Checks (Some of these don't pertain to Sniper EFI):
    Is the battery fully charged? Brand new Odyssey PC1200.
    Have you performed a TPS Autoset? Yes.
    Is the engine cranking fast enough (100+ RPM)? About 135 RPM.
    Does the Data Monitor display legitimate cranking RPM? Yes.
    Does the Data Monitor display legitimate sensor values? Yes, all sensors reading correct.
    Does a Datalog indicate any RPM Errors? Not that I'm aware of.
    Is the throttle blade(s) open far enough to start? Yes.
    Are the crank & cam sensor/reluctor air gaps set correctly? N/A.
    Do the crank & cam sensors have power & ground? Yes, registering is System Log.
    Keyed +12V red/white wire powered when cranking? Yes, verified with DVM while cranking.
    Fuel pressure set to proper psi (Actual System Pressure)? 43.5 psi.
    Are the fuel injectors spraying fuel? Unplugged due to initial start.
    Does the fuel pump prime for 5 seconds at key-on? Yes.
    Is the ECU controlling timing? Yes.
    Does a timing light indicate there's spark/ignition? No spark.
    What does your ignition system consist of? CNP harness, FAST Dual Sync, MSD LSx truck coils.
    Correct Ignition Type entered in Ignition Parameters? Yes.
    Are the spark plugs fuel fouled/wet? No, injector harness unplugged.
    Is the ignition timing synchronized with the ECU? Not sure yet.
    Are you running in sequential mode? If so, check the cam sync sensor. Yes, checked.
    Air or Coolant Temp Enrichment Modifiers erroneously set to 0% or 70%? No.
    The engine won't start if the throttle is opened beyond the "Clear Flood TPS" setting. It's at zero while cranking.
    Is it correctly wired as shown in the wiring manual? (Holley EFI Wiring Manual - LINK) Yes, I double checked all.
    Disconnect the ECU Main Power Harness for 20 minutes. This "resets" some unusual ECU issues. It was unplugged overnight.

    Ignition Parameters:

    Custom Ignition Parameters:

    This is how I wired the coils:

    System Log:
    Last edited by Mikeg; 11-21-2017 at 08:02 PM.
    1995 Mustang: 347 stroker, Ford Motorsport block, Probe Industries rotating assembly & main girdle, I-beam rods & forged aluminum pistons, 8.5:1 compression, Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads, Track Heat intake, Comp Cams NX282HR-14, FMS 1.6 rockers with ARP pushrods, Accufab 70 mm throttle body, 4R70W transmission. Baumannator TCS.
    Current project: Holley HP EFI with DeatschWerks 50 lb/hr injectors, FAST Dual Sync Distributor, DIS conversion with MSD Street Fire coils.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Connecticut
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikeg View Post
    Is the ignition timing synchronized with the ECU? Not sure yet.
    You need to initially synchronize the ignition timing with the ECU. Read 2nd paragraph:
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....ing-Holley-EFI (Ignition Timing Synchronization)
    EDIT: Disregard this, I just realized that you stated there's no spark.

    Ensure your timing light works while cranking. Some are sensitive to lower than 12V.
    https://forums.holley.com/showthread...3721#post93721 (Related Forum Thread)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  3. #3
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    Thanks for the reply Danny. I'll pull a plug and see if I'm actually getting spark while cranking. I read that forum post about the picky timing lights, very interesting. I will let you know what the results are. Happy Thanksgiving by the way!
    1995 Mustang: 347 stroker, Ford Motorsport block, Probe Industries rotating assembly & main girdle, I-beam rods & forged aluminum pistons, 8.5:1 compression, Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads, Track Heat intake, Comp Cams NX282HR-14, FMS 1.6 rockers with ARP pushrods, Accufab 70 mm throttle body, 4R70W transmission. Baumannator TCS.
    Current project: Holley HP EFI with DeatschWerks 50 lb/hr injectors, FAST Dual Sync Distributor, DIS conversion with MSD Street Fire coils.

  4. #4
    Join Date
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    You're welcome. Happy Thanksgiving to you too.
    (P.S. If you have an extra spark plug, you can plug it into one plug wire and ground it to check for spark.)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  5. #5

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    Wow, best prepared post I've ever seen. I had the same problem with my conversion, it was the timing light.

  6. #6
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    Well you guys were right! The timing light is not working with these coils. I plugged in the injector harness, set static timing and it fired right up. The timing light still does not read when idling. I tried the timing light on a different car and it works. Do I need a special timing light for a CNP ignition? Any recommendations? I'll probably go buy a new one today, mine is an old school Actron that's probably 10 years old. Thanks for all the help!
    1995 Mustang: 347 stroker, Ford Motorsport block, Probe Industries rotating assembly & main girdle, I-beam rods & forged aluminum pistons, 8.5:1 compression, Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads, Track Heat intake, Comp Cams NX282HR-14, FMS 1.6 rockers with ARP pushrods, Accufab 70 mm throttle body, 4R70W transmission. Baumannator TCS.
    Current project: Holley HP EFI with DeatschWerks 50 lb/hr injectors, FAST Dual Sync Distributor, DIS conversion with MSD Street Fire coils.

  7. #7
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    Connecticut
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikeg View Post
    Any recommendations?
    I've owned two expensive timing lights that were supposed to be high quality. Both failed.
    I now use a digital Actron CP7529: https://actron.com/content/digital-timing-light
    Timing Light Instruction Manual: https://actron.com/sites/default/fil...lish_16313.pdf
    It's bright, works great, and it's available at most local auto parts stores.
    (Ensure the dial back-to-zero function is zeroed for fully degreed dampers.)
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....9690#post59690 (Additional Information)
    I've successfully used this timing light on several Holley ECU controlled applications.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Cabral View Post
    (Ensure the dial back-to-zero function is zeroed for fully degreed dampers.)
    My dial back function does not operate properly as well. It is rock steady when zeroed out, but is a little jumpy when the dial back function is used. I put a timing tape on my dampener to eliminate the problem.

  9. #9
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    I bought a new timing light today, and it works great. The engine is difficult to start, but I got it going, connected timing light to plug wire #1 and the timing was way far advanced. I was trying to set the 10° mark to the indicator. There's no advance feature on the Innova I purchased, so I know that was not interfering. This may be a dumb question, but I figured I'd ask before I pull the distributor, since I changed my Firing Order from 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 to 3-7-2-6-5-4-8-1 (FAST Dual Sync setup), does that mean that I put the pickup on the number 3 cylinder when checking static timing?

    EDIT: I setup the distributor with a 50° Ignition Reference Angle, if that has any effect on checking timing. Basically I'm just not sure how to check timing, now that I changed the Firing Order and referenced the distributor to 50°.
    Last edited by Mikeg; 11-28-2017 at 10:10 PM.
    1995 Mustang: 347 stroker, Ford Motorsport block, Probe Industries rotating assembly & main girdle, I-beam rods & forged aluminum pistons, 8.5:1 compression, Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads, Track Heat intake, Comp Cams NX282HR-14, FMS 1.6 rockers with ARP pushrods, Accufab 70 mm throttle body, 4R70W transmission. Baumannator TCS.
    Current project: Holley HP EFI with DeatschWerks 50 lb/hr injectors, FAST Dual Sync Distributor, DIS conversion with MSD Street Fire coils.

  10. #10
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    Dec 2009
    Location
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikeg View Post
    This may be a dumb question, but I figured I'd ask before I pull the distributor, since I changed my Firing Order from 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 to 3-7-2-6-5-4-8-1 (FAST Dual Sync setup), does that mean that I put the pickup on the #3 cylinder when checking static timing?
    No, use the timing light the same way you always would on #1 cylinder.

    EDIT: I setup the distributor with a 50° Ignition Reference Angle, if that has any effect on checking timing. Basically I'm just not sure how to check timing, now that I changed the Firing Order and referenced the distributor to 50°.
    No, use the timing light the same way you always would. Synchronize the ignition timing by reading the link below:
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....ing-Holley-EFI (Ignition Timing Synchronization)
    Believe the timing light above all else, it's always the real timing (if there's a discrepancy).
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

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