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Thread: Behold, another smart coil Terminator issue.

  1. Default Behold, another smart coil Terminator issue. [SOLVED]

    Before I describe my entire entire setup/issue, I'll try to keep this contained to the immediate problem.

    I just added the whole Holley CNP smart coil ignition system (including the Holley Dual Sync Distributor) to my SBF Terminator setup and added a 1 inch carb spacer.

    The car idles better than it ever has with perfect readings across the board. I even checked the timing synchronization by enabling static timing and using a set value of 30°. Timing on the balancer is within 1° of ECU value all the way up to 6000 RPM. (And this was accomplished by using the default Inductive Delay and dwell values per instructions.)

    I'm also using the Global File from my last Ford TFI setup (but just edited the Ignition Parameters to use Holley coils), so that the A/F ratios were somewhat learned and it didn't have to start "all over again" to help simplify this tune.

    However, the moment throttle is applied in gear, the engine doesn't hit right and any extra throttle cruising has really bad stumbling/misfire characteristics.
    Last edited by Cougarbird86; 08-20-2018 at 01:50 PM. Reason: Problem Solved
    1986 Ford Thunderbird: Custom ROUSH 427 SBF/DART SHP Big Bore Block, AFR Heads, Holley Terminator EFI, Holley Smart Coils, custom valve cover coil bracket.
    "T-birds are like the red headed step son of the Fox body family...but we still love 'em the same."

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    *UPDATE* Disregard transmission issue. It is fixed.

    Engine completely bogs & misses at 3100 RPM. A/F Ratio jumps to 15.3. Target A/F Ratio at WOT is 12.2. It WILL NOT go below 13.3 at WOT. Carb spacer keeps MAT at 85°F. Throttle body & carb spacer are only warm to touch. Manifold pretty hot. Spacer actually had condensation all around it? Fuel pressure stays consistent at 45-46 psi. Adjustments to acceleration enrichment and secondary throttle blend have no promising affects. Adjustments to timing also seem to have little affect.

    The longer we drove, the more driveability issues we had at any RPM (surges, shaking, misses) regardless of the "learn speed parameters". Vacuum at idle is a pretty consistent 18 inHg, and cruise is 25+ (268 grind Comp Cam). Will check datalogs and look for any noticeable inconsistencies.

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    *UPDATE 2* Going over the datalog I noticed a few things:
    #1 The actual A/F ratio seems to be quite far off from the Target A/F ratio. The lines do not seem to intersect or follow the same path closely.

    #2 The fuel pressure drops drastically & rapidly as RPM climbs. It goes from 46 PSI down to 22 PSI. The odd thing here is that while my co-pilot was watching the gauges in the EFI software on my laptop while driving, we never noticed a fluctuation in pressure by more than 2 PSI? And I'm guessing that both the readings on that gauge and from the ECU datalog should be coming from the same pressure sensor I have installed in the regulator?

    #3 Never seemed to have any of these problems when I was running the Ford TFI ignition setup? (That thing would just randomly burn up & die like all TFI modules ;P )
    1986 Ford Thunderbird: Custom ROUSH 427 SBF/DART SHP Big Bore Block, AFR Heads, Holley Terminator EFI, Holley Smart Coils, custom valve cover coil bracket.
    "T-birds are like the red headed step son of the Fox body family...but we still love 'em the same."

  4. Default

    Could perhaps someone at least point me in the right direction of why my fuel pressure reading (whether on the handheld or laptop connected) stays at a rate of 44-46 psi, but my datalogs show it fluctuating all over the place? Is there another pressure sensor in the throttle body itself that's getting a different reading than the one at the regulator?
    1986 Ford Thunderbird: Custom ROUSH 427 SBF/DART SHP Big Bore Block, AFR Heads, Holley Terminator EFI, Holley Smart Coils, custom valve cover coil bracket.
    "T-birds are like the red headed step son of the Fox body family...but we still love 'em the same."

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    23,101

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cougarbird86 View Post
    Could perhaps someone at least point me in the right direction of why my fuel pressure reading (whether on the handheld or laptop connected) stays at a rate of 44-46 psi, but my datalogs show it fluctuating all over the place?
    I'd have to see the datalog, but it's probably due to the data channel's Smoothing (Filtering) feature.

    Right mouse clicking on the right side check box of each data channel, reveals "Filtering" (smoothing), "Paneling" & "Scaling" options.
    Not everything is saveable, but clicking "File" (top left) & "Save", does save your data channel (left column) configuration changes.
    Read pages 7 & 8 of the Holley EFI Datalogger Instructions: http://documents.holley.com/techlibr...9r10543rev.pdf.
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....s-amp-Datalogs (Datalog Information)

    Is there another pressure sensor in the throttle body itself that's getting a different reading than the one at the regulator?
    No, only the one fuel pressure transducer you installed.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  6. Default

    Interesting. Should I upload the datalog here or PM it to you?
    1986 Ford Thunderbird: Custom ROUSH 427 SBF/DART SHP Big Bore Block, AFR Heads, Holley Terminator EFI, Holley Smart Coils, custom valve cover coil bracket.
    "T-birds are like the red headed step son of the Fox body family...but we still love 'em the same."

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    23,101

    Default

    For further assistance, post your Global File and a short datalog of this occurrence for us to analyze.
    Also, review the datalog and inform us of exactly where in the datalog (time/seconds) the problem occurs.
    Datalog & Global Files must be linked to a document hosting website. I use Dropbox.com.
    Files can also be "zipped" (compressed zipped folder) & attached directly to a forum post.
    Your Global File is in the "Documents", "Holley", "HEFI V4", "Global Files" folder (.hefi file).
    Your Datalogs are in the "Documents", "Holley", "HEFI V4", "Datalogs" folder (.V4.dl file).
    Someone will analyze/troubleshoot the problem & offer advice. Also, ensure all this is right:
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....ents-Read-This (Initial Checks & Adjustments - Read Steps #1-#6!)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  8. Default

    Here ya go. The driveability issue seems to start at 2.83 seconds. I tried to get a good pull to help datalog, but had to back off throttle midway through and punch it again. Where the RPM drops suddenly is when the engine really started running rough, and I had to back off then start up again. Attachment 2514
    1986 Ford Thunderbird: Custom ROUSH 427 SBF/DART SHP Big Bore Block, AFR Heads, Holley Terminator EFI, Holley Smart Coils, custom valve cover coil bracket.
    "T-birds are like the red headed step son of the Fox body family...but we still love 'em the same."

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Ont. Canada
    Posts
    1,454

    Default

    I would believe the fuel pressure in the datalog. Your Injector Pulse Width, Duty Cycle, Fuel Flow, Closed Loop & Learn all go up when the fuel pressure goes down. Find out why it's losing fuel pressure.

  10. Default

    The more I fiddle (which isn't a whole lot since my car is stored somewhere else far away), it does seem to be pressure related. Seems to keep dropping down to 22 psi under load and stays lean under load. It's just kinda odd because it ran perfect with the last ignition system before it was winter stored, and now it just so happens to be having issues after I installed the new CNP ignition.

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