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Thread: Oxygen Sensor? Fails way too early.

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by caverman View Post
    My WBO2 sensor hasn't been an issue, but I've seen posts on here where it has been. I thought about buying a spare and leaving it in the car in case it fails on me when I'm nowhere near home. That was until I saw that they are basically $150. I'll just keep my fingers crossed that if mine does go bad, it won't leave me stranded somewhere.
    Late response but... From the screen you can turn off "Closed Loop". When you do this, the ECU will decide on the amount of fuel to inject depending on the existing fuel map (Open Loop), without making any adjustments "on-the-fly" (Closed Loop). So, if you want to test whether you could make it home without a working WBO2 sensor, just turn off "Closed Loop" and you'll find out how well your fuel map has Learned what your particular engine needs. This is also what you'd do to get home if your WBO2 sensor fails. If it runs bad in Open Loop, you most likely just need to give the EFI more time to adjust the Learn Table. Hope this makes sense. You've probably already read this, but thought I'd add in case it helps. B.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianSanDiego View Post
    From the screen you can turn off "Closed Loop". When you do this, the ECU will decide on the amount of fuel to inject depending on the existing fuel map (Open Loop), without making any adjustments "on-the-fly" (Closed Loop).
    Yes, Open Loop mode ignores the WBO2 sensor and stops Learning, but still uses the current Learn Table. This is why when the engine is tuned & running well, the Closed Loop and Learned Compensation Limits % should be decreased to lock in a good tune. If the WBO2 sensor fails, it won't completely corrupt the Global File because the Closed Loop and Learned Compensation Limits % "limit" how much fueling modification is possible. The AFR gauge will display an erroneous air/fuel ratio, but you'll only feel a slight difference in how the engine runs. If the EFI system is very well tuned, the engine should run good in Open Loop mode.

    So, if you want to test whether you could make it home without a working WBO2 sensor, just turn off "Closed Loop" and you'll find out how well your fuel map has Learned what your particular engine needs. This is also what you'd do to get home if your WBO2 sensor fails.
    No, you'd also have to Clear the Learn Table because a failed WBO2 sensor will badly corrupt it with erroneous values.
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....ension-Harness (WBO2 Sensor Information - Read 4th & 5th paragraph under "Wideband O2 Sensor Notes".)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.

    '78 BRONCO: 508" stroker, TFS heads, 11:1 comp ratio, Dominator MPFI & DIS, cold air induction, Spal dual 12" fans/aluminum radiator, dual 3" exhaust/Magnaflow mufflers, Moroso vacuum pump, Accusump, engine oil & trans fluid coolers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, A/C, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2500 RPM converter, 3:1 Atlas II, modified Dana 44/60-lockers-4.10s, hydroboost/4-disc brakes, ram-assist/heim joint steering, Cage long radius arms, traction bars, 4" Skyjacker lift, 35" mud tires

  3. #23

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    Ah, yes, thanks. Sounds like another good reason to turn down, or off, the Learn Gain once the table is good.

  4. #24
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    Not necessarily the "Base Fuel Learn Gain"; decrease the Closed Loop and Learned Compensation Limits %:
    https://forums.holley.com/showthread...0192#post50192 (Related Forum Thread)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.

    '78 BRONCO: 508" stroker, TFS heads, 11:1 comp ratio, Dominator MPFI & DIS, cold air induction, Spal dual 12" fans/aluminum radiator, dual 3" exhaust/Magnaflow mufflers, Moroso vacuum pump, Accusump, engine oil & trans fluid coolers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, A/C, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2500 RPM converter, 3:1 Atlas II, modified Dana 44/60-lockers-4.10s, hydroboost/4-disc brakes, ram-assist/heim joint steering, Cage long radius arms, traction bars, 4" Skyjacker lift, 35" mud tires

  5. #25

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    My Sniper EFI just pegged the WBO2 sensor, so I'm ordering one from Amazon. If that works, I can request a replacement from Holley as a spare. I hope I'm not one of the scenarios where the replacement sensor does not fix the issue. I find this article interesting since the Holley Sniper does heat the WBO2 without the vehicle running:
    To get the best life out of your wideband O2 Lambda sensors, we recommend the following:
    Consider using a controller that is either integrated into an ECU or one that receives an engine speed input via a wired input or over CAN Bus. Options meeting this criteria include the Link G4+ Fury, G4+ Thunder, or using Link’s external CAN-Lambda controller with a suitable ECU. If using a stand-alone controller without an engine speed input, never let your controller heat the sensor prior to starting the engine. One way to guarantee this is to power the controller off of its own relay which is not turned on until after the engine is started
    I have been letting the heat cycle complete, not sure if that lead to the demise? Full article here:
    http://www.nzefi.com/bosch-lsu-wide-...-applications/

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zmann View Post
    I have been letting the heat cycle complete, not sure if that lead to the demise?
    I do it all the time. However, I wouldn't recommend it if your WBO2 sensor probe is positioned in the exhaust pipe's I.D.
    If so, I'd install an Innovate Motorsports HBX-1 Heat-Sink Bung Extender. You'll be glad you did; it protects the sensor.
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....ension-Harness (Read 4th & 5th paragraphs under "Wideband O2 Sensor Notes")

    The real danger is running the engine with an unpowered WBO2 sensor installed in the pipe. An unpowered WBO2 sensor can't be left in the exhaust pipe. The pumping cell rate is very temperature
    dependent, and therefore, the sensor probe temperature must be strictly regulated through a built-in heater. Otherwise, the exhaust gas byproducts will quickly coat and ruin the WBO2 sensor.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.

    '78 BRONCO: 508" stroker, TFS heads, 11:1 comp ratio, Dominator MPFI & DIS, cold air induction, Spal dual 12" fans/aluminum radiator, dual 3" exhaust/Magnaflow mufflers, Moroso vacuum pump, Accusump, engine oil & trans fluid coolers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, A/C, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2500 RPM converter, 3:1 Atlas II, modified Dana 44/60-lockers-4.10s, hydroboost/4-disc brakes, ram-assist/heim joint steering, Cage long radius arms, traction bars, 4" Skyjacker lift, 35" mud tires

  7. #27

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    Thanks Danny. I was already contemplating buying an HBX extension before this failure. (I keep up on all the post here, so I was aware of the HBX-1.) Kinda kills me to spend another $80 bucks on this setup, but I'm in too far to not finish it reliably. I'm using the Holley band clamp contraption bung for now. I was going to drop a collector and just install a weld in bung. I see suggestions that you can use a longer bung vs the HBX, so I'm still deciding what to do there.

    I've had a Bosch WBO2 sensor in my exhaust for a long time to feed a A/F gauge and it never failed, so IDK why this went so soon? (Yes, angle is within spec.) I haven't seen anyone post about repeat failure of the WBO2 once replaced? One good thing is instead of thinking I had a mechanical or spark issues, I instantly knew to try & lock out Closed Loop when the truck began to load up and the WBO2 was pegged; thanks to previous posts.

    UPDATE: Suggestion taken. HBX-1 ordered $64.00 on Amazon.com. It's only money, LOL.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zmann View Post
    UPDATE: Suggestion taken. HBX-1 ordered $64.00 on Amazon.com. It's only money, LOL.
    You'll be glad you did. I absolutely love the Innovate Motorsports HBX-1 Heat Sink Bung Extenders. I've been using mine for many years (LINK). I won't use a WBO2 sensor without one.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.

    '78 BRONCO: 508" stroker, TFS heads, 11:1 comp ratio, Dominator MPFI & DIS, cold air induction, Spal dual 12" fans/aluminum radiator, dual 3" exhaust/Magnaflow mufflers, Moroso vacuum pump, Accusump, engine oil & trans fluid coolers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, A/C, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2500 RPM converter, 3:1 Atlas II, modified Dana 44/60-lockers-4.10s, hydroboost/4-disc brakes, ram-assist/heim joint steering, Cage long radius arms, traction bars, 4" Skyjacker lift, 35" mud tires

  9. #29

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    Danny (or anyone), do you index your HBX-1 adapters? I see they sell indexing washers.

  10. #30
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    Yes, there's instructions with the kit. I didn't add indexing washers. I just shaved down the one thick copper washer (included), until it turned enough for the machined dot (on hexagon) to face forward.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.

    '78 BRONCO: 508" stroker, TFS heads, 11:1 comp ratio, Dominator MPFI & DIS, cold air induction, Spal dual 12" fans/aluminum radiator, dual 3" exhaust/Magnaflow mufflers, Moroso vacuum pump, Accusump, engine oil & trans fluid coolers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, A/C, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2500 RPM converter, 3:1 Atlas II, modified Dana 44/60-lockers-4.10s, hydroboost/4-disc brakes, ram-assist/heim joint steering, Cage long radius arms, traction bars, 4" Skyjacker lift, 35" mud tires

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