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Thread: Major issues, started small and got worse.

  1. #21
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    Dec 2009
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    Connecticut
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    Quote Originally Posted by venomous121 View Post
    How much timing is the Sniper able to advance/retard?
    Whatever you program in the Base Timing Table. The Cranking Timing (starting) is a separate parameter.

    The Target Air/Fuel Ratio Table & Base Fuel/Timing Table (and MAP kPa & RPM axes/scales) should be configured using the Sniper EFI software:
    In the Sniper EFI software (LINK), Target Air/Fuel Ratio Table (Fuel ICF) & Base Timing Table (Spark ICF), select "2D Table" Type (not "Simple").
    The Target Air/Fuel Ratio Table & Base Timing Table can then be properly configured & tuned for any engine.
    https://www.holley.com/support/resou...Fuel_Injection (Sniper EFI Software & Holley 558-443 CAN/USB Dongle)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.

    '78 BRONCO: 508" stroker, TFS heads, 11:1 comp ratio, Dominator MPFI & DIS, cold air induction, Spal dual 12" fans/aluminum radiator, dual 3" exhaust/Magnaflow mufflers, Moroso vacuum pump, Accusump, engine oil & trans fluid coolers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, A/C, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2500 RPM converter, 3:1 Atlas II, modified Dana 44/60-lockers-4.10s, hydroboost/4-disc brakes, ram-assist/heim joint steering, Cage long radius arms, traction bars, 4" Skyjacker lift, 35" mud tires

  2. #22

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    So I would need the cable then, and have to do this via my PC and not the handheld? It's on my "to buy" list.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by venomous121 View Post
    So I would need the cable then, and have to do this via my PC and not the handheld?
    Yes, with the Holley 558-443 CAN/USB Dongle (LINK).
    https://forums.holley.com/showthread...6350#post86350 (Sniper EFI Config File/SD Card Information)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.

    '78 BRONCO: 508" stroker, TFS heads, 11:1 comp ratio, Dominator MPFI & DIS, cold air induction, Spal dual 12" fans/aluminum radiator, dual 3" exhaust/Magnaflow mufflers, Moroso vacuum pump, Accusump, engine oil & trans fluid coolers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, A/C, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2500 RPM converter, 3:1 Atlas II, modified Dana 44/60-lockers-4.10s, hydroboost/4-disc brakes, ram-assist/heim joint steering, Cage long radius arms, traction bars, 4" Skyjacker lift, 35" mud tires

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
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    Palm Bay, FL
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    I have been following this thread (and a couple similar ones) and this is very strange to me. I have customers who have installed the Sniper EFI System using an MSD distributor for timing control and have had absolutely zero problems. This is one example: 32 Ford Model A.

    I've had others who have had nothing but problems. I even had one guy who built his own Hall-Effect pickup on the crankshaft, who simply could not get around RFI problems. He was running an MSD distributor but he was not even using the magnetic pickup in the MSD distributor. He had very expertly fashioned his own all-effect pickup. Adding the Hall-Effect crank pickup made it better, but it still stalled rather regularly and was not acceptable.

    Honestly, I think we're making this a mystery where there is no mystery. It has already been stated in this thread. The MSD rotor phasing kit seems to emit RF interference in some cases. That interference can be inducted by one of several "antennas" on the system. The magnetic crank sensor, being in such close proximity, is pretty much a slam dunk, but even if you remove it, you still have an RFI beacon that can create problems.

    Going further, an unphased rotor in an electronic timing controlled distributor can also emit RF Interference due to the phase mismatch. It seems that some have had success using the large cap HEI distributor. I'm not entirely comfortable with that unless there is some means to phase the rotor. It may work in some cases but, as I said at the top of this, I have had quite a few customers who've done Sniper EFI ignition timing control with the MSD distributor and rotor phasing kit and have had no problems. Unless we can attribute this to the different design of the 8421 versus the 84211, then it seems fair to say that some setups are just more susceptible to RFI than others.

    Not to belabor the point, but I think that the Holley Dual-Sync Distributor is the answer. It's going to cost you about $100 more (if you have to buy the MSD distributor in the first place), but it's far easier to set up and I have yet to hear anyone who has had problems with it and it's far easier to get set up. On the article I wrote on our website about demystifying Sniper and Terminator Ignition Timing Control I state that I can only recommend the Holley Dual-Sync Distributor for Sniper EFI timing control.
    Chris Myer
    800-880-0960 x654
    chris@EFISystemPro.com

    Check our www.EFISystemPro.com website for live stock status on
    all Holley items, including the full line of Holley HyperSpark Distributors!

  5. #25
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    Sep 2015
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    Palm Bay, FL
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    I've done a bit more studying on this and have some info that may benefit some.

    To use the MSD Pro-Billet distributor to do ECU-controlled timing with the Sniper EFI System, Holley recommends the 84211 rotor phasing kit. If you have a large Ford style distributor cap they recommend swapping to a smaller cap so you can use the 84211. But also note that if that is not possible then you might try to do rotor phasing with the larger cap and the 8421.

    Now, to say that the 84211 works with five different MSD distributor caps (as indicated in the 84211 instructions) overlooks entirely the fact that it must be customized in one of three configurations to do so. It turns out that the "tang" (little metal contact in the middle of the rotor) must be placed at one of three different heights to work with the five different rotors.

    This is not something that should be ignored. Holley specifies three different ranges, each with 0.070" of tolerance. And, to ensure that it's not overlooked, they wire a cardboard tag to the rotor, printed in bright green, with three depth gauges, one for each tang height. But if you choose to ignore that (or if you happened to get your hands on a used one that didn't have the card wired to it anymore), then you're likely going to have a rotor that creates a nice cap between the tang and the distributor contact (creating an arc) or that presses so hard against the distributor contact that it displaces and quickly damages the cap (more arcing.)

    And then there's the 8421. This adjustable rotor ships with absolutely no instructions or similar green card. In an offline conversation, venomous121 explained to me that he very carefully measured the installed clearance between the stock rotor (that didn't seem to produce EFI) and the 8421 he was using. Big difference. He ingeniously swapped the contacts from the stock rotor onto the 8421 and that has resolved his problems.

    So, if you have an MSD distributor controlling timing via your Sniper EFI System and if you are having RFI issues, this gives you some direction to try and resolve the problem. But I would say that even if you have an MSD Pro Billet distributor, if you're going to do timing control with your Sniper then put that thing on the shelf or on eBay and spend the money on the Holley Dual Sync Distributor.
    Chris Myer
    800-880-0960 x654
    chris@EFISystemPro.com

    Check our www.EFISystemPro.com website for live stock status on
    all Holley items, including the full line of Holley HyperSpark Distributors!

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by cmyer
    And then there's the 8421. This adjustable rotor ships with absolutely no instructions or similar green card. In an offline conversation, venomous121 explained to me that he very carefully measured the installed clearance between the stock rotor (that didn't seem to produce EFI) and the 8421 he was using. Big difference. He ingeniously swapped the contacts from the stock rotor onto the 8421 and that has resolved his problems.
    Don't forget, I bent the end of the contact, (the one that supplies spark to the cap towers), at a 45° angle. Doing this put it within range, installed height wise, of the stock MSD rotor. I think that bend might have actually been the "fix". To put it different way, if you put both rotors flat on a table, the stock MSD rotor contact sits a few millimeters lower than the contact on the adjustable rotor.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by venomous121 View Post
    Don't forget, I bent the end of the contact, (the one that supplies spark to the cap towers), at a 45° angle. Doing this put it within range, installed height wise, of the stock MSD rotor. I think that bend might have actually been the "fix". To put it different way, if you put both rotors flat on a table, the stock MSD rotor contact sits a few millimeters lower than the contact on the adjustable rotor.
    This is excellent information. I'll try this with the adjustable rotor and see how it goes. Mine is a 84211.

  8. #28
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    Good job, venomous121. About a year ago (whenever the MSD adjustable rotor problem started), I asked the Sniper EFI users if the adjustable rotor was "dimensionally" the same, and I was told it's physically the same. Now we're finding out it's obviously not the same dimensions. I even suggested to try replacing the two steel screws with plastic ones (non-conductive electrically).
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.

    '78 BRONCO: 508" stroker, TFS heads, 11:1 comp ratio, Dominator MPFI & DIS, cold air induction, Spal dual 12" fans/aluminum radiator, dual 3" exhaust/Magnaflow mufflers, Moroso vacuum pump, Accusump, engine oil & trans fluid coolers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, A/C, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2500 RPM converter, 3:1 Atlas II, modified Dana 44/60-lockers-4.10s, hydroboost/4-disc brakes, ram-assist/heim joint steering, Cage long radius arms, traction bars, 4" Skyjacker lift, 35" mud tires

  9. #29

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    I just compared my caps, the 84211 rotor contact/pointer bit matched up to my original 8467 cap, so this was not a issue. HOWEVER, I did pull the green gauge card out and re-check the tang height and mine was definitely way too low. I know I did set this when I installed it originally, but perhaps it got bent out of alignment during install or after I had removed it. I've reset it spot on with the card & re-installed it, and will see how it goes.

  10. #30

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    Just an update. My post #29 above didn't solve the stalling out. However, it did make it slightly better.

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