Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 32

Thread: Major issues, started small and got worse.

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    19,275

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by memphis View Post
    Is it because they use a Hall-Effect instead of a magnetic pickup?
    No, it uses a magnetic pickup sensor (LINK).
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.

    '78 BRONCO: 508" stroker, TFS heads, 11:1 comp ratio, Dominator MPFI & DIS, cold air induction, Spal dual 12" fans/aluminum radiator, dual 3" exhaust/Magnaflow mufflers, Moroso vacuum pump, Accusump, engine oil & trans fluid coolers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, A/C, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2500 RPM converter, 3:1 Atlas II, modified Dana 44/60-lockers-4.10s, hydroboost/4-disc brakes, ram-assist/heim joint steering, Cage long radius arms, traction bars, 4" Skyjacker lift, 35" mud tires

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Middle River, MD
    Posts
    249

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    This is a classic case of RF interference, with the negative TPS percentage and the "no data" flashing. The car runs fine with the standard non-phaseable rotor with the ignition setup as "CD Box"?
    I've seen in multiple instances now where the rotor was not phased correctly, and it caused the RF interference. When it's out of phase, the spark has to jump a larger gap and once phased properly everything worked as it should. What were the steps taken to phase the rotor? Here's a video that you may find helpful. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2zfmemVKQE. Matt
    Quote Originally Posted by venomous121 View Post
    So I fixed the rotor tonight and got it back in the car. It ran fine for about 5 minutes. Then it started acting up again. I have the rotor lined up centered with the #1 tower. I tried moving rotor tip to the leading edge & trailing edge of the tower, same results. I even moved it to where the stock rotor sits and it still acts up. I reinstalled the regular rotor and the car runs fine. Why would a rotor cause this? It doesn't make any sense to me at all. The rotor I'm using is the 8421, not the 84211---> (the one with the timing marks). Any ideas? I really would like to use the adjustable rotor because I want to start using the Sniper for timing control.
    Quote Originally Posted by memphis View Post
    I had the same with my MSD adjustable rotor 84211, even when set to factory location it would cause issues. I swapped back to the regular rotor and all good (apart from phasing being out). Maybe something to do with the design of the adjustable rotor. The verdict is to ditch the MSD for the Holley dual sync distributor.
    Quote Originally Posted by venomous121 View Post
    I'm going to give MSD a call today and see if they have any feedback on this. It really sucks because I have everything I need and shouldn't have to buy the Dual Sync. Hopefully they can give me a solution.
    You're right, it definitely sucks. I had an MSD that worked great for the last 4 years, UNPHASED rotor, and never, ever had a running issue caused by the distributor.
    I had a FiTech EFI conversion on my car, for 10 months, minus the timing control. Again, no issues whatsoever caused by "RFI" or "wiring" or "distributor".
    Swapped to Holley EFI Sniper, and yet again, zero issues, WITHOUT the timing control.
    Nothing but problems with my locked out MSD, AND the MSD adjustable rotor, phased EXACTLY how the Holley videos say to do it, and EXACTLY how Doug Flynn, from Holley, said to do it.
    WITHOUT the adjustable rotor, WITHOUT rotor phasing being "correct", the car ran great, sitting in the shop. Basically, running, sitting still, just like the Holley videos, which are made on an engine stand.
    The car was literally undriveable. Random stalling, backfiring, misfiring, handheld gauges going crazy, with no pattern to it whatsoever. Double, triple, and quadruple checked everything...EVERYTHING.
    In fact, no less than three times, I even swapped the ignition system back, to NON Timing Control, to confirm it wasn't a wiring, or
    MSD distributor issue causing the problems. Swapped back to conventional timing, the car immediately ran great, no issues whatsoever.
    Someone on this site, suggested I try running it with timing control, BUT with stock, non-adjustable rotor. The car ran great.
    My only problem at that point, was hard starting, and starter kicking back on occasion. It acted as if the car was "stuck" on extremely high base timing. Actually ruined THREE starters.
    Finally just surrendered, and spent the $430 for the Dual Sync distributor. For some reason, it requires an adapter to plug into Holley fuel injection, which is pretty dumb, but the car runs and starts great again.

    The eBay HEI suggestion is something I wish I would have tried before dumping the Dual Sync cash. An older Holley video clearly shows the Holley tech,
    recommending that exact distributor (even with it's magnetic pickup, ironically), which is obviously BEFORE they offered the sometimes hard to get, Dual Sync distributor.
    Bottom Line is WHATEVER causes the MSD distributors to NOT work properly, is a royal PITA, and has caused several people to spend money they didn't have to, or more importantly, didn't THINK they'd have to.
    And just to clarify, I'm not some backyard Billy-Bob mechanic, or hobbyist. I've made my living, for the last 35 years, being a "mechanic".

  3. #13

    Default

    I couldn't agree with you more. I'm also a technician. I've been a Ford Tech for 20+ years, and I know everything on my end is sound. I wish someone could chime in and give me a reason as to why, only the adjustable rotor causes RFI issues. In my 20 years or chasing nightmare issues in vehicles, I have only run into a hand full of them being cause by RFI concerns, usually a coil, alternator, something like that, but never a distributor rotor. Looks like all of the symptoms you listed with your car, I also had with my car as well. I really don't want to spend the money on the dual sync if it's not needed, and it shouldn't be. Plus, I know a lot of people love them, but then I see people that have problems with them too. That's an expensive dart to throw, if you know what I mean.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Middle River, MD
    Posts
    249

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by venomous121 View Post
    I couldn't agree with you more. I'm also a technician. I've been a Ford Tech for 20+ years, and I know everything on my end is sound. I wish someone could chime in and give me a reason as to why, only the adjustable rotor causes RFI issues. In my 20 years or chasing nightmare issues in vehicles, I have only run into a hand full of them being cause by RFI concerns, usually a coil, alternator, something like that, but never a distributor rotor. Looks like all of the symptoms you listed with your car, I also had with my car as well. I really don't want to spend the money on the dual sync if it's not needed, and it shouldn't be. Plus, I know a lot of people love them, but then I see people that have problems with them too. That's an expensive dart to throw, if you know what I mean.
    Have you tried yet to re-install a STOCK MSD rotor? I'd be curious to see if that "cured" the RFI "noise" like it has for everyone I have suggested it to. FWIW, every single harness, wire, connector, etc., is routed the same, and is exactly where it was, when I supposedly had "noise". If you haven't tried the stock rotor, please do, and report back.

    My logic was that my car ran great for the 3 years prior to EFI, with no rotor ever being in phase, so why should it "need" it now? Our cars run quite a bit differently, off of an engine (or distributor) test stand.

    No complaints at all with the Dual Sync distributor, but if I hadn't already had the MSD (so cost me nothing but a few hours of totally wasted time, and a LOT of aggravation), and bought it FIRST, I'd be beyond ticked off, after now finding out it doesn't work if/when installed as directed...aka with "properly phased rotor". There's a PROBLEM that needs to be either solved, or Holley should just tell everyone NOT to even try to use the MSD distributor with Timing Control. Just my opinion. No regrets using the Dual Sync distributor, just would have rather known I "NEEDED" it upfront.

  5. #15

    Default

    Right, so yes, I had reinstalled the stock MSD rotor and car runs fine. I went back and forth between the two several times, trying different things like rotor position as I said in a prior post. I would like it alone and just keep using my MSD programmable box, but I want to hook this nitrous kit I have sitting around for years now and I would really like to only have to worry about programming one system to run it and now having to try and sync up the MSD with the Sniper system. Also, when the car is hot, I do get kick-back when trying to start it, even with the MSD box pulling 25° of timing out of it, (the full amount it can pull). Can the dual sync be run through the MSD box? I'm for sure not giving of the MSD completely.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Middle River, MD
    Posts
    249

    Default

    I have the MSD #6425 Digital 6AL, so unfortunately have no idea on the programmable types.

    I experienced the same thing, trying to use the Sniper EFI to alter cranking timing. I had it as low as 5°, which made absolutely no difference whatsoever. It was as if that parameter box had no effect at all on anything.

  7. #17

    Default

    Mine cranks fine with the MSD pulling down timing to 10° as long as the rotor is phased correctly. So if I didn't have this rotor/RFI issue, everything would be great. Was that with the Dual sync distributor installed or the MSD that it made no difference with? Are you running the Dual Sync distributor through the MSD Digital 6AL?

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Middle River, MD
    Posts
    249

    Default

    Sorry for the delayed reply. With Timing Control Enabled, using the Magnetic ignition source, using the MSD distributor (rotor phased or not phased) the Ignition/Crank Timing parameter changes made absolutely no difference whatsoever in the starter kickback issue. Didn't matter where Cranking Timing Degrees, Crank to Run RPM, Minimum Signal Voltage, or Filtering were set...tried everything suggested by people here, the tech line, and even other sites. It did NOT kickback all the time. Maybe 75% of the time or so. No pattern or temperature related times either. Just did it whenever, cold or hot, ambient temperature cold or hot, and whenever it felt like doing it. The other times it fired right up, like it should.

    The first starter I trashed, had been on this engine for 3 years, with distributor locked out, and timing set at 44°, yes 44°, and never really had any hard cranking/hard starting issues. Put a gear reduction Hitachi style starter on, sounded great for about 5 starts, then quit on me in my driveway. That was the final straw for me as far as surrendering to the Dual Sync Distributor.

    I put a brand new PowerMaster Ultra Torque gear reduction starter on a day or so after the Dual Sync Distributor, and the car has not had any start problems whatsoever, no matter the temperature of the air, or the engine.

    Yes, I currently run the MSD (#6425) Digital 6AL box, an MSD (#8207) Blaster S/S coil, MSD Super Conductor plug wires, and the Holley Dual Sync Distributor. As said, no starting, running, or performance issues anymore.

  9. #19

    Default

    How much timing is the Sniper able to advance/retard? The MSD is only capable of retarding timing up to 25. I set the base timing as high as I want, then the MSD can pull it down from there, but can't advance it anymore than where I lock it in at from the distributor. This causes a problem if you set the base timing high, but need to pull out a lot of timing for starting. It'll only go so far. Just curious how flexible the Dual Sync/Sniper will be.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Middle River, MD
    Posts
    249

    Default

    I only have a 20° spread between "cruise" & "idle" timing, 50° & 30° respectively with 44° my WOT total. I do have the Cranking Timing at 10°, and it seems to have no issue making that happen.

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
About us
Holley has been the undisputed leader in fuel systems for over 100 years. Holley carburetors have powered every NASCAR® Sprint® Cup team and nearly every NHRA® Pro–Stock champion for four decades. Now, Holley EFI is dominating the performance world as well as our products for GM's LS engine. Holley's products also include performance fuel pumps, intake manifolds & engine dress–up products for street performance, race and marine applications. As a single solution, or partnered with products from other Holley companies - Hooker Headers, Flowtech Headers, NOS Nitrous, Weiand, Earl's Performance Plumbing, or Diablosport - Holley products can give you the edge you need over the competition.
Join us