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Thread: Terminator/HP No Start Issue

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by HWYSTR View Post
    On a positive note, I can see the WBO2 warming up, then going to a 35+ AFR, so that appears to be working correctly.
    Yes, we knew the WBO2 sensor was defective. Was this engine once running properly under Holley EFI control?

    Looking at the timing in the datalog, it shows the correct cranking advance, then on the 'sputters' it jumps to 26, and then back to the cranking timing as it seems it should.
    Yes, but is the engine's ignition timing synchronized with the ECU control?

    Suggestions on where to check next?
    Is all of this right? http://forums.holley.com/showthread....ents-Read-This (Initial Checks & Adjustments - Read Steps #1-#6!)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  2. #22
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    Yeah, the car ran great for close to 30K miles, oil changes & gas, basically. If you look back in the thread, you'll see it was intermittent, and slowly got worse. I originally suspected the distributor module and replaced it, along with coil & plugs. It ran with the intermittent issue until finally wouldn't start. My daughter was driving it on the highway when it just quit, and that time it didn't restart. That's why I'm fairly confident that it's not an 'initial startup issue', and all the settings/install is correct.
    HWYSTR455 on Performance Years Forums
    1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624
    1971 Trans Am 474 Blown EFI Pro-Tour car (next on list).
    1972 442 W-30 Tribute build thread: https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...e-project.html

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by HWYSTR View Post
    That's why I'm fairly confident that it's not an 'initial startup issue', and all the settings/install is correct.
    I think you're right. Is there spark from the ignition system? Are the fuel injectors spraying fuel? Are the primary throttle blades open far enough? (I can't remember all your details; I help a lot of people every day.)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  4. #24
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    Oh, I understand, and yes, you do help many people, and I thank you for them as well!
    Spark, OK, clarification, just because it's showing the amount of timing in the datalog, changes, and also shows RPM, is it still possible there's no fire/spark?
    Injectors spraying fuel, can I hold the throttle open, and see the key on initial fuel prime? Is there a pulse width value in the datalogs I can look at? If they're not spraying, is there something I can check?
    I have the psi transducer in the regulator, and there is only about 5" or braided line to the TB. Since there's correct psi, I would guess there's fuel to the injectors, or is that not a correct assumption?
    The regulator is on the firewall, and it does make noise, pretty much always has, guess it's 'hammering'? It's a Holley 12-846. Yeah, the blades are open far enough, I can't imagine they would have changed.
    HWYSTR455 on Performance Years Forums
    1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624
    1971 Trans Am 474 Blown EFI Pro-Tour car (next on list).
    1972 442 W-30 Tribute build thread: https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...e-project.html

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by HWYSTR View Post
    Spark, OK, clarification, just because it's showing the amount of timing in the datalog, changes, and also shows RPM, is it still possible there's no fire/spark?
    The datalog will always indicate timing, that doesn't mean there's spark at the spark plug.

    Injectors spraying fuel, can I hold the throttle open, and see the key on initial fuel prime?
    Yes, but not past the "Clear Flood TPS" percentage in Engine Parameters (no fuel injected beyond that %).

    Is there a pulse width value in the datalogs I can look at?
    Yes, of course. Injector PW & Duty Cycle.

    If they're not spraying, is there something I can check?
    Yes, the fuel system. Does the fuel pump prime for 5 seconds at key-on?

    Yeah, the blades are open far enough, I can't imagine they would have changed.
    Yes, sometimes the idle speed screw backs off a little bit and chokes the engine of air.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  6. #26
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    Yes, it primes at key-on, can hear the pump. So I should be able to turn the key in the on position a couple times, then look down the throttle bores with it open and see/smell gas, yes?

    Idle screw back off, gotcha, I really don't think that's an issue, but will check. It wouldn't die driving down the road if that were the case.

    Let's go back to the spark thing. OK, when you say spark at the plug, even if there's RPM, ECU is showing timing, when you say doesn't mean spark at the plug. What would the causes be, like a bad plug wire, bad cap, like a physical 'break' in the path? Or are you saying it can be anything in the ignition system? Like voltage? Or more like a distributor module, coil, or CDI box?
    HWYSTR455 on Performance Years Forums
    1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624
    1971 Trans Am 474 Blown EFI Pro-Tour car (next on list).
    1972 442 W-30 Tribute build thread: https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...e-project.html

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by HWYSTR View Post
    Yes, it primes at key-on, can hear the pump. So I should be able to turn the key in the on position a couple times, then look down the throttle bores with it open and see/smell gas, yes?
    No, the ECU only operates the fuel injectors when there's an RPM signal (engine cranking/running).

    Idle screw back off, gotcha, I really don't think that's an issue, but will check. It wouldn't die driving down the road if that were the case.
    It wouldn't die while driving because the throttle is open.

    Let's go back to the spark thing. OK, when you say spark at the plug, even if there's RPM, ECU is showing timing, when you say doesn't mean spark at the plug.
    Correct! The EFI software/Data Monitor is only displaying what (timing advance) should be happening.

    What would the causes be, like a bad plug wire, bad cap, like a physical 'break' in the path? Or are you saying it can be anything in the ignition system? Like voltage? Or more like a distributor module, coil, or CDI box?
    Lots of possibilities. We need to know if there's spark or not.
    I'd confirm there's spark by grounding an extra spark plug against the engine. It should spark
    when cranking. And clamp a timing light onto the spark plug wire to ensure each coil is firing.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  8. #28
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    Timing light, will do that tonight or tomorrow night. Not sure why I got stuck not thinking that was a possibility! (And promise to blame MSD if that's the case! Heh-heh!)
    HWYSTR455 on Performance Years Forums
    1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624
    1971 Trans Am 474 Blown EFI Pro-Tour car (next on list).
    1972 442 W-30 Tribute build thread: https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...e-project.html

  9. #29
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    Well, seems there's intermittent spark, so I temp wired a new MSD box in, exact same symptoms. Keep in mind I have replaced the coil, distributor module, plugs, and have had the same symptoms through each step. Suggestions?
    HWYSTR455 on Performance Years Forums
    1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624
    1971 Trans Am 474 Blown EFI Pro-Tour car (next on list).
    1972 442 W-30 Tribute build thread: https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...e-project.html

  10. #30
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    Custom Ignition Parameters (System ICF):
    Points Output Dwell Time ― "2.0 msec" ( Do not set this to 1.5 msec!)
    The instructions state setting the (Points Output) Dwell Time at 1.5 msec.
    Often times, this is wrong (too short), and 2.0 msec is required!
    Too many people have experienced problems with losing the trigger. Set it to 2.0 msec.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

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