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Thread: Terminator/HP No Start Issue

  1. #11
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    For further assistance, post your Global File and a short datalog of this occurrence for us to analyze.
    Also, review the datalog and inform us of exactly where in the datalog (time/seconds) the problem occurs.
    Datalog & Global Files must be linked to a document hosting website. I use Dropbox.com.
    Files can also be "zipped" (compressed zipped folder) & attached directly to a forum post ("Go Advanced" & "Attachments").
    Your Global File is in the "Documents", "Holley", "HEFI V4", "Global Files" folder (.hefi file).
    Your Datalogs are in the "Documents", "Holley", "HEFI V4", "Datalogs" folder (.V4.dl file).
    Someone will analyze/troubleshoot the problem & offer advice. Also, ensure all this is right:
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....ents-Read-This (Initial Checks & Adjustments - Read Steps #1-#6!)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS T/W 11R 205 heads, 232°-244° duration/.623" lift/114° LSA camshaft, 12:1 C/R, TFS R-Series FTI ported intake, BBK 80mm T/B, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 200A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, -6AN fuel system plumbing, Walbro 255 LPH pump, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/3000 RPM converter, B&M Hammer shifter, FPP aluminum driveshaft, FPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 M/T Street Comp tires.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
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    Manassas, VA
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    OK, here's a Dropbox location, let me know if there are issues accessing: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/k8a2p...BTl4fMN_I&sm=1
    HWYSTR455 on Performance Years Forums
    1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624
    1971 Trans Am 535ci Sniper XFlow Pro-Tour car (next on list).
    1972 442 W-30 Tribute build thread: https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...e-project.html

  3. #13
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    I wasn't looking for a Dropbox "Invite", just a "Direct Download". Is "Mike-17-V4-TBI85SB245CD.hefi" your Global File? If so, I don't see anything out of the ordinary with your datalog or Global File, except for a strange amount of enriched Learning in the deceleration area of the Learn Table. If that's your idle area (which I doubt), you have a defective WBO2 sensor. Zero out that area of the Learn Table; left click & drag to highlight the corrupted area, then press the zero & tab key. Replace the WBO2 sensor, and ensure the spark plugs aren't fuel saturated. Uncheck "Enable RPM To Enter Closed Loop" in Closed Loop Parameters; it'll still run in Closed Loop. Also, if you're using an MSD Digital 6AL CD ignition box with EFI, ensure the Rev Limiter Verification feature is disabled (LINK).
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....1842#post61842 (Learn Table - Diagnostic/Troubleshooting Tool)
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....2523#post62523 (Holley EFI Tuning Tips & Information)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS T/W 11R 205 heads, 232°-244° duration/.623" lift/114° LSA camshaft, 12:1 C/R, TFS R-Series FTI ported intake, BBK 80mm T/B, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 200A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, -6AN fuel system plumbing, Walbro 255 LPH pump, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/3000 RPM converter, B&M Hammer shifter, FPP aluminum driveshaft, FPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 M/T Street Comp tires.

  4. #14
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    Jun 2016
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    Manassas, VA
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    Sorry about that Danny, Dropbox is new to me. I was kind of struggling with sharing it without entering an actual user from my contacts list. Any tip there would be appreciated for future reference.

    Yes, the 'Mike-17-V4...' is the Global File, but as a test, I tried going back two revisions and used 'Mike-15-V4...' too. I was getting some detonation at higher RPM at WOT, and light throttle/load at cruise. I was trying to get that out with Acceleration Enrichment & another modifier, but can't recall exactly.

    Pretty sure I set the rev limiter dials to 10K, and didn't activate it, and don't see any sweep of the tach at key-on. But I will check that again.

    Decel are of Learn Table, like in the 500-1200 range, and higher vacuum area of the table? Maybe just zero out the whole table?

    So it's not lean at cranking? I see the spike into the 18+ AFR range when it attempts to start, right where the RPM spike is. The very beginning of the datalog file is initial cranking. Trigger was set at 200 RPM, and the AFR is off the chart. Not sure if that's normal during cranking or not?
    HWYSTR455 on Performance Years Forums
    1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624
    1971 Trans Am 535ci Sniper XFlow Pro-Tour car (next on list).
    1972 442 W-30 Tribute build thread: https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...e-project.html

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by HWYSTR View Post
    Decel are of Learn Table, like in the 500-1200 range, and higher vacuum area of the table?
    Where does your engine idle at (RPM x MAP kPa)?

    Maybe just zero out the whole table?
    You could do that, if you suspect the Learn Table has changed:
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....1842#post61842 (Learn Table - Diagnostic/Troubleshooting Tool)

    So it's not lean at cranking?
    Yes, the cranking to start is lean. But wasn't it starting & running fine beforehand? This is a new problem, correct? If so, I'm wondering what changed?
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS T/W 11R 205 heads, 232°-244° duration/.623" lift/114° LSA camshaft, 12:1 C/R, TFS R-Series FTI ported intake, BBK 80mm T/B, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 200A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, -6AN fuel system plumbing, Walbro 255 LPH pump, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/3000 RPM converter, B&M Hammer shifter, FPP aluminum driveshaft, FPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 M/T Street Comp tires.

  6. #16
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    Interesting, just noticed my last response didn't post, sorry about that. Idle is set to 950, and I did zero the whole Learn Table.
    Yes, it was running before, and as I mentioned, it would be running fine, on the road, and would die just like turning off a light switch.
    Sometimes it would fire right back up, other times would crank a few times then fire up, and then finally, no fire.
    Nothing has changed, other than the fact that it doesn't run at the moment.

    One thing I noticed when I had cleared the Learn Table, uploaded, TPS Autoset, and at rest with power on and during cranking,
    the WBO2 sensor/AFR Left was showing a "disabled" value. I purchased an WBO2, but haven't installed it yet.
    I'm tempted to unplug the WBO2 and try to fire it, but was otherwise occupied. I'm still open for suggestions.
    HWYSTR455 on Performance Years Forums
    1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624
    1971 Trans Am 535ci Sniper XFlow Pro-Tour car (next on list).
    1972 442 W-30 Tribute build thread: https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...e-project.html

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by HWYSTR View Post
    the WBO2 sensor/AFR Left was showing a "disabled" value. I purchased an WBO2, but haven't installed it yet.
    Install the new WBO2 sensor. There's something wrong with it, or its wiring (LINK).
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS T/W 11R 205 heads, 232°-244° duration/.623" lift/114° LSA camshaft, 12:1 C/R, TFS R-Series FTI ported intake, BBK 80mm T/B, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 200A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, -6AN fuel system plumbing, Walbro 255 LPH pump, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/3000 RPM converter, B&M Hammer shifter, FPP aluminum driveshaft, FPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 M/T Street Comp tires.

  8. #18
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    I did go over the wiring, will double check the installed location, and will install the new WBO2 today. Is there any harm installing the HBX-1 in situations where it's not particularly needed? If no, I may install one, since @ 30K miles seems like a "short life" to me. As always Danny, your attention & time is greatly appreciated!
    HWYSTR455 on Performance Years Forums
    1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624
    1971 Trans Am 535ci Sniper XFlow Pro-Tour car (next on list).
    1972 442 W-30 Tribute build thread: https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...e-project.html

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by HWYSTR View Post
    Is there any harm installing the HBX-1 in situations where it's not particularly needed?
    No, there's no harm even if it's not necessary.

    As always Danny, your attention & time is greatly appreciated!
    You're welcome.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS T/W 11R 205 heads, 232°-244° duration/.623" lift/114° LSA camshaft, 12:1 C/R, TFS R-Series FTI ported intake, BBK 80mm T/B, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 200A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, -6AN fuel system plumbing, Walbro 255 LPH pump, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/3000 RPM converter, B&M Hammer shifter, FPP aluminum driveshaft, FPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 M/T Street Comp tires.

  10. #20
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    Jun 2016
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    Manassas, VA
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    Over the weekend, had a chance to take another whack at it. Removed the power, replaced the WBO2 sensor (did not plug in), applied power, verified the WBO2 sensor type, synced the Global File to ECU, key-off, plugged the WBO2 in, then attempted another start. Same thing. Cranks, seems like it's about to kick over, sputters for a sec or two, and never starts.

    On a positive note, I can see the WBO2 warming up, then going to a 35+ AFR, so that appears to be working correctly. Looking at the timing in the datalog, it shows the correct cranking advance, then on the 'sputters' it jumps to 26, and then back to the cranking timing as it seems it should.

    Still see the extremely lean condition at the beginning of cranking, but guessing that's because it hasn't reached the WBO2 yet? It still seems lean to me when trying to start, but just can't say for sure. Has correct fuel psi, and is showing changes in AFR after a sputter. Suggestions on where to check next?
    HWYSTR455 on Performance Years Forums
    1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624
    1971 Trans Am 535ci Sniper XFlow Pro-Tour car (next on list).
    1972 442 W-30 Tribute build thread: https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...e-project.html

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