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Thread: MSD 4x Wheel & Holley Hall-Effect Sensor

  1. #1

    Default MSD 4x Wheel & Holley Hall-Effect Sensor

    Why would I be seeing a long "on" time with a very short "off" time on the System Log when using a 4x magnet crank trigger wheel with a Holley Hall-Effect crank sensor? You would think that with only 4 small magnets and a very large void in between, you would have the opposite. Short pulses with big gaps between. I'm having trouble with my cam signal falling on top of the crank pulse, and terrible bad missing. If I adjust the cam sensor to get it to fall between the huge crank pulses, I have to move the cam sensor 23 degrees and it won't start.


  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    23,079

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    http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...0#post26386690 (Incorrect Digital Falling Signals - 4x Crank & 1x Cam)

    Crank & Cam Sensor Wiring Tips:
    The 10-pin Ignition Connector has one "Chassis Ground" (loose black wire ground) and two "IPU Grounds" (clean ECU ground).
    Don't use "Chassis Ground" to ground an ignition module (or crank & cam sensors). It's quick & easy to move the ignition
    module ground wire from (cavity) pin D "Chassis Ground" to pin C or G "IPU Ground", where it should be.

    If you don't have the actual Metri-Pack terminal release tool, a "safety pin" will work.
    It just needs to be a stiff wire between .030"-.035" in diameter to release the terminal tab.
    Then reopen (bend) the terminal tab before reinsertion, so it will clip (lock) into the cavity.
    http://www.whiteproducts.com/removal_tools.shtml (T-6 Micro Terminal Release Pick Tool)

    Also, don't use (cavity) pin E "Switched +12V" from the 10-pin Ignition Connector, to power an ignition module
    (or crank & cam sensors), unless you've modified the wiring source to connect from pin B20 - EST 12V Output
    (P1B ECU Connector). This LINK explains why & how to do it.
    http://documents.holley.com/techlibr...10555rev17.pdf (Holley EFI Wiring Manual, Sections 2.1 "Pin-Outs" & 13.0 "Wiring Appendix")
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  3. #3

    Default

    I really appreciate all your help on here. If you lived close by, I'd buy you a Pepsi or something.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    23,079

    Default

    You're welcome, and thanks for the compliment.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  5. #5

    Default

    I did those three things and the first one, moving the cam sync to get the Falling Edge of the cam signal away from the Falling Edge of the crank signal made it stop coughing & backfiring, but I still got a miss. I went into the harness and clipped the power wire going to the ignition harness and moved it to a B20, but the ground in the 10-pin harness was actually correct. Maybe Holley revised that? I even went into the smart coil harness and put in a 10 AWG power wire replacing the little one and bypassing the connector. I have been in System Log mode for all this time, so today I did a regular datalog and saw that the left AFR (NTK) is erratic looking. Does this look like I may have an injector problem? I have brand new Trick Flow 120 lb/hr injectors. The miss starts at about 1800 and almost feels like a rev limiter. I can bang the pedal quick and it revs like a beast, but if I ease into the throttle, it misses bad. I put new MSD wires on today just to be sure it wasn't that. No change.









  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Connecticut
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    23,079

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    Quote Originally Posted by SCHUCKZ View Post
    I went into the harness and clipped the power wire going to the ignition harness and moved it to a B20, but the ground in the 10-pin harness was actually correct. Maybe Holley revised that?
    Yes, that's one of the main harness revisions. (I'm not sure if all harnesses have it.)

    I've been in System Log mode for all this time, so today I did a regular datalog and saw that the left AFR (NTK) is erratic looking. Does this look like I may have an injector problem?
    I have no idea. Ensure there are no exhaust leaks upstream of the WBO2 sensor.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Chicago IL
    Posts
    1,952

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    It looks like either you have an WBO2 problem, or you have a misfire from one or multiple cylinders.
    Could simply be an area of the fuel table that needs to be tuned, could be a mechanical problem.
    It's nearly impossible to diagnose things like this over the internet.
    Unfortunately, sometimes you really do have to be in front of the car to figure out what's going on.
    -Scott
    Don't forget to check out progress on my Race Car:
    Project Blasphemy - 8.07 @ 171
    Low 8 Second Street Car

  8. #8

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    I swapped the injectors from left to right, and the choppy AFR stayed on the left. I swapped the NTK wideband O2 sensors, and the choppy leaner AFR stayed on the left. I laser temp checked the header tubes, and they are all pretty close. I gave it more timing and some more TPS to AE at lower TPS. I went through all my grounds, and separated any that were stacked. Ran the small ground from the CNP harness all the way to the battery. Bypassed the harness with two 10 AWG power wires to two 40 amp relays in parallel. Grounded the two heads together. It's a little better, but still there. The miss starts a light throttle and stays until about 5000 RPM. I've attached a video and linked to the datalog that was taken during the video. Also, there is a new System Log that was done right after the video, and the current tune is there. The new tune has the injector angle stuff put back to the way it was before I changed it. https://youtu.be/00c-WtYi8ls

  9. #9

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    23,079

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    What's the AE vs TPS/MAP RoC Blanking values (Fuel ICF, Fuel Modifiers, Fuel Control)?
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

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