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Thread: SD Card Tuning versus Handheld Tuning. Problems, Issues, Advice, Tips?

  1. #11

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    I took a look at your file and it's not one anything in a street car will run off of. You have 32° of timing almost everywhere, and then 41° at 1400, and 50° above 1400. Here's a screen shot of the Base Timing Table I did today for the Super Victor intake swap I just finished. Take a look at what I've done for my combo and look at what yours looks like. Let me know what you think and I'll help you with the tuneup. It has a conservative timing curve and added timing at cruise. Not the best screen shot, hope it helps. Jimmy
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    Last edited by Gadget; 04-23-2017 at 07:51 PM.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by rel3rd View Post
    MSD TIMING CONTROL is my "known good" tune, originated from the handheld.
    MODIFIED GOOD TUNE is the one made from laptop, which will not run the car.
    In Engine Parameters (System ICF), look at your Ignition/Magnetic "Filtering" ("Low" as opposed to "High") & "Inductive Delay" (140 usec as opposed to 160 usec).
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.

    '78 BRONCO: 508" stroker, TFS heads, 11:1 comp ratio, Dominator MPFI & DIS, cold air induction, Spal dual 12" fans/aluminum radiator, dual 3" exhaust/Magnaflow mufflers, Moroso vacuum pump, Accusump, engine oil & trans fluid coolers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, A/C, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2500 RPM converter, 3:1 Atlas II, modified Dana 44/60-lockers-4.10s, hydroboost/4-disc brakes, ram-assist/heim joint steering, Cage long radius arms, traction bars, 4" Skyjacker lift, 35" mud tires

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gadget View Post
    I took a look at your file and it's not one anything in a street car will run off of. You have 32° of timing almost everywhere, and then 41° at 1400, and 50° above 1400. Here's a screen shot of the Base Timing Table I did today for the Super Victor intake swap I just finished. Take a look at what I've done for my combo and look at what yours looks like. Let me know what you think and I'll help you with the tuneup. It has a conservative timing curve and added timing at cruise. Not the best screen shot, hope it helps. Jimmy
    Jimmy, thanks for looking. My car does NOT like "conservative timing", and never has. The car runs, and has always ran great (PRE-TIMING CONTROL), with 44° total, and 33° initial, with a very quick curve, using a custom advance limiter in the MSD distributor.

    30-33° has always given its best idle manners.
    44° is where it runs its best ET/MPH, 060" over 427ci BBC.
    The 50° "cruise timing" is just a random entry.
    I did run 10° vacuum advance with distributor, but it also ran very well locked at 44°, so I split the difference on that one. Figured 50° was OK.

    With the "good" MSD TIMING CONTROL tune, the car runs great, and I have no intention of re-doing it. Those are the timing numbers it runs best at, using the last 4 years worth of time slips. It has actually slowed down 2-3 MPH and 3-4/10ths with "big block timing" of 36-38°.
    I only tried to smooth the AFR & TIMING graphs so they were not abrupt changes. I also enabled DFC just to see if would work OK with my combo. There shouldn't have been any other modifications, but it looks like Danny spotted one or two that I did not see for some reason. I know I didn't change them, especially the "Filtering", so evidently there's some sort of default info coming up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Cabral View Post
    In Engine Parameters (System ICF), look at your Ignition/Magnetic "Filtering" ("Low" as opposed to "High") & "Inductive Delay" (140 usec as opposed to 160 usec).
    Thanks for looking. That's really weird since I know I did not touch either. I don't even know what the Filtering does, to be quite honest. I'll look at it where you mentioned.

  4. #14

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    What you have is not 50° at cruise, it's 50° total. I have not seen a big block that made power on the dyno with 44°. What heads and how much compression are you running, and what cam? Jimmy

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by rel3rd View Post
    That's really weird since I know I did not touch either. I don't even know what the Filtering does, to be quite honest. I'll look at it where you mentioned.
    Adjust those first, because the Base Timing Tables discrepancies wouldn't cause what you're describing.
    http://documents.holley.com/techlibrary_199r11259.pdf (Holley Sniper EFI Help File - "Ignition, Magnetic, Filtering", Page 18)

    Another problem with using VR Magnetic sensors, is there's more tuning work. Hall-Effect is "set & forget".
    The VR Magnetic Sensor Type "Filtering" & "Minimum Signal Voltage" parameters need to be programmed.
    http://documents.holley.com/199r10676rev.pdf (Magnetic Crank/Cam Input Filtering Parameters - Page 2)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.

    '78 BRONCO: 508" stroker, TFS heads, 11:1 comp ratio, Dominator MPFI & DIS, cold air induction, Spal dual 12" fans/aluminum radiator, dual 3" exhaust/Magnaflow mufflers, Moroso vacuum pump, Accusump, engine oil & trans fluid coolers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, A/C, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2500 RPM converter, 3:1 Atlas II, modified Dana 44/60-lockers-4.10s, hydroboost/4-disc brakes, ram-assist/heim joint steering, Cage long radius arms, traction bars, 4" Skyjacker lift, 35" mud tires

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gadget View Post
    What you have is not 50° at cruise, it's 50° total.
    Actually, his WOT timing is 44° at 95-105 kPa. The other two Config Files are at 40° WOT. However, I agree that Base Timing Table needs work (way too many 50° cells).
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.

    '78 BRONCO: 508" stroker, TFS heads, 11:1 comp ratio, Dominator MPFI & DIS, cold air induction, Spal dual 12" fans/aluminum radiator, dual 3" exhaust/Magnaflow mufflers, Moroso vacuum pump, Accusump, engine oil & trans fluid coolers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, A/C, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2500 RPM converter, 3:1 Atlas II, modified Dana 44/60-lockers-4.10s, hydroboost/4-disc brakes, ram-assist/heim joint steering, Cage long radius arms, traction bars, 4" Skyjacker lift, 35" mud tires

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gadget View Post
    What you have is not 50° at cruise, it's 50° total. I have not seen a big block that made power on the dyno with 44°. What heads and how much compression are you running, and what cam? Jimmy
    Jimmy, are you referring to the MSD TIMING CONTROL TUNE, or one of the others?

    439ci, Brodix RaceRite rectangular 294s, 10.87:1 static, 233°/243° @ .050", 620"/600", 107° LSA, Clay Smith Hydraulic Roller.
    Cam was recommended by Chris Straub, who had the heads and knew their exact flow numbers (with mild exhaust porting).
    Buddy mine also runs a 439, and his best numbers on engine dyno, also were right there in the 44° range. His may have been 42°, or 43°.
    My car has proven, over & over, in hundreds of passes, that 44° is THE total timing it runs it's best at.
    It's not a race car by any means, it's a HEAVY '71 Chevelle, all steel with factory A/C, that weighs 4180 with me in it, and 1/2 tank of gas. Verified on 2 different scales. One said 4200, one said 4180.
    Has been 11.31 @ 117 with 1000+ RPM looser converter and 4.10s, but now running 3.90s and 3200 stall, so now goes 11.50s @ 116-117 all day.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Cabral View Post
    Actually, his WOT timing is 44° at 95-105 kPa. The other two Config Files are at 40° WOT. However, I agree that Base Timing Table needs work (way too many 50° cells).
    That was why I was trying to do some smoothing Danny. The graph looked horrible to me, like a couple cliffs.
    The plan was do some smoothing, test it out, do some smoothing, test it out, etc.
    The problem was my first TEST TUNE, would not run the car, at all.
    I have since redone the original, and it actually sounds really good, but have not had a chance to drive the car yet.
    Here's the tune in the car right now: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bxv...ew?usp=sharing
    Last edited by rel3rd; 04-24-2017 at 08:25 AM.

  9. #19
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    I'd like to know what your idle and cruising range is (RPM & MAP kPa)? Short answer please; your posts are long, LOL!
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.

    '78 BRONCO: 508" stroker, TFS heads, 11:1 comp ratio, Dominator MPFI & DIS, cold air induction, Spal dual 12" fans/aluminum radiator, dual 3" exhaust/Magnaflow mufflers, Moroso vacuum pump, Accusump, engine oil & trans fluid coolers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, A/C, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2500 RPM converter, 3:1 Atlas II, modified Dana 44/60-lockers-4.10s, hydroboost/4-disc brakes, ram-assist/heim joint steering, Cage long radius arms, traction bars, 4" Skyjacker lift, 35" mud tires

  10. #20
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    Well, you always say you need more info, LOL!

    Idle is 900 RPM
    Cruise is usually 2800-3000 (average)
    MAP, I'd have to get back to you with.

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