Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 12

Thread: Lean At Shifts

  1. #1

    Default Lean At Shifts

    I know I'll probably be hammered for this, but unless I run a very rich drive off AFR in the 12-12.2:1 range (peak torque AFR?), at part throttle leaving a stop sign (in refer to as drive off), the car will go lean at shift to a perceptible level. Aka, you "feel" it.

    This is part throttle say 18% drive off. If I get up anywhere 12.8 or so it stalls on shifts recovers and runs smooth. I can run it out leaner if I turn everything off (CL & Learn) and force that recovery cell area richer, but then you guessed it, that's my same cruise area so I end up cruising at 12.0:1. Any clever strategies to combat this?

    Engine is smooth & clean all the way to 6700 RPM on 10 psi, with an engine making 600 HP base, aka lot of power. Cam has approximately 16° of overlap, and cleans up in the 1400-1500 range easily. These shifts occur in the 1800-1900 range at 58-63 kPa (recovery cells). If I leave it artificially rich, it's smooth as butter with positive shifts & recovery. I think about what it would do if it had a MAF trying to keep it at 14.7, LOL. Like my wife's car with similar size cam that shifts no problems in mid 14s, also verified AFR (using the Holley NGK) with a Innovate LM1.

    May be in appropriate for this forum, but just fishing for ideas. Feel free to delete it, if I'm in violation to ask for tuning strategies for problem areas on the Dominator ECU and my combo. Thanks.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    14,020

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PumpGasInside View Post
    ...but then you guessed it, that's my same cruise area so I end up cruising at 12.0:1. Any clever strategies to combat this?
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....7925#post47925 (Additional AE Tuning Information For Stubborn Engines)

    May be in appropriate for this forum, but just fishing for ideas. Feel free to delete it, if I'm in violation to ask for tuning strategies for problem areas on the Dominator ECU and my combo.
    Don't be sensitive, we don't delete valid posts here. You're free to ask anything EFI related.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.

    '78 BRONCO: 508" stroker, TFS heads, 11:1 comp ratio, Dominator MPFI & DIS, cold air induction, Spal dual 12" fans/aluminum radiator, dual 3" exhaust/Magnaflow mufflers, Moroso vacuum pump, Accusump, engine oil & trans fluid coolers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, A/C, Lentech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2500 RPM converter, 3:1 Atlas II, modified Dana 44/60-lockers-4.10s, hydroboost/4-disc brakes, ram-assist/heim joint steering, Cage long radius arms, traction bars, 4" Skyjacker lift, 35" mud tires

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Ont. Canada
    Posts
    222

    Default

    Standard or automatic? Are you running sequential EFI? Mine wanted an Injector End Angle of at lest −180° before it would come off idle without a stumble. It didn't matter how rich I made it. Have you made any datalogs of this event?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    14,020

    Default

    He has a 4L80E automatic transmission, and a FAST Dual Sync Distributor for sequential injection.
    81 TransAm, I like the IEA idea. I'd try single IEA values (as opposed to the table) to rule out an IEA issue.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.

    '78 BRONCO: 508" stroker, TFS heads, 11:1 comp ratio, Dominator MPFI & DIS, cold air induction, Spal dual 12" fans/aluminum radiator, dual 3" exhaust/Magnaflow mufflers, Moroso vacuum pump, Accusump, engine oil & trans fluid coolers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, A/C, Lentech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2500 RPM converter, 3:1 Atlas II, modified Dana 44/60-lockers-4.10s, hydroboost/4-disc brakes, ram-assist/heim joint steering, Cage long radius arms, traction bars, 4" Skyjacker lift, 35" mud tires

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Ont. Canada
    Posts
    222

    Default

    With there being two ways to setup the cam sync with the FAST Dual Sync, does he have the Firing Order correct for the method he is using? I used the method that changes the Firing Order.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    14,020

    Default

    I'm sure you're referring to the Holley V4 EFI software/ECU firmware update:
    UPDATE: The new V4 EFI software allows the Ignition Reference Angle to be changed from −360° to +360°.
    This eliminates the requirement to alter the Firing Order in Ignition Parameters for some unusual applications.

    http://documents.holley.com/techlibr...0_overview.pdf (Holley EFI V4 Software Overview - Page 1)

    However, I'm not sure how that works, nor would I use the FAST Dual Sync Distributor (LINK).
    I prefer the Holley EFI Dual Sync Distributor, or better yet, a distributorless ignition system:
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....3038#post33038 (Detailed Crank Trigger/DIS Conversion Information & Reasoning)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.

    '78 BRONCO: 508" stroker, TFS heads, 11:1 comp ratio, Dominator MPFI & DIS, cold air induction, Spal dual 12" fans/aluminum radiator, dual 3" exhaust/Magnaflow mufflers, Moroso vacuum pump, Accusump, engine oil & trans fluid coolers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, A/C, Lentech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2500 RPM converter, 3:1 Atlas II, modified Dana 44/60-lockers-4.10s, hydroboost/4-disc brakes, ram-assist/heim joint steering, Cage long radius arms, traction bars, 4" Skyjacker lift, 35" mud tires

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Cabral View Post
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....7925#post47925 (Additional AE Tuning Information For Stubborn Engines)
    Don't be sensitive, we don't delete valid posts here. You're free to ask anything EFI related.
    I just wanted to make sure I wasn't coming of as implying something is wrong with the Dominator ECU or Holley system at all. I'm a little gun shy here.

    I already had the FAST distributor installed with the 50° Ignition Reference Angle from the XFI 2.0 installation, so I just purchased the adapter, and moved the Firing Order up, starting at 8 based on how I understood literature Danny provided at the time. I assume this has to with with leading edge vs trailing edge sync events.
    I'm unfamiliar with the method option Danny linked for the new V4 software distributor phasing options, but I will read through it.
    On the injector end angle, I used S2H's method of zeroing out the VE (I just used cut & paste), then filled out my cam info and calculated a table. The Holley software gave me a starting point at idle of -71° and approximately -151° at 15 psi & 7000 RPM. I then pasted my VE table back in, saved & started.
    It liked it as far as fuel consumption, I had to lower idle varies from 33 to 31 for same AFR.
    I will say though not looking at PW values just going off pure human sensory input it seemed to like 0 to 50 positive there at idle.

    I will read through some of the info provided, then I will lean it back out till I detect the issue again, and apply some static negative injector end angle to see if it helps. It certainly did on the FAST system, which seemed to like -130°-150° ( no table just set static and no dyno proof just sensory input and seemingly less fuel consumption.

    If IEA does anything perceptible I will certainly report it, but I can tell you even allowing the software to populate the table scaling from -70° up to -151°, has definitely (maybe placebo) seemed to help manners all around.

    Oh & yes, 4L80E 3600 lockup, 3.55 gears & P275/60R15 tire, car approximately weights with me and tools in trunk full tank 3930 lbs. Thanks.

    I'm really loving having everything integrated into a single ECU, I can't wait to move my meth injection and boost control. Also, the more I learn the software the better everything is as well. It's a bit different than what I'm used to, and the Advanced Table I know there's a LOT that can be done there if one is clever enough. I have the 5.7" TSLCD as well, it's all starting to work real well together. I also really like the modular nature of it, I don't have to run 2 more plugs worth of wires I'm not using. I now have the 4 I/O harness that does on the main harness, and sense oil pressure and fuel pressure is built in, that's probably gonna do everything for me now. One for the AUX electric fan, and maybe enough left to get my meth up on the Holley.

    Oh, I should mention, right now I'm using an Advance Table to delay 8 seconds after the ECU commands the TCC to lockup (based on MPH) to enable a leaner WBO2 target table for cruise, as a work around, but the closer I can get drive off the less abrupt that would be.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Ont. Canada
    Posts
    222

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Cabral View Post
    I'm sure you're referring to the Holley V4 EFI software/ECU firmware update:
    UPDATE: The new V4 EFI software allows the Ignition Reference Angle to be changed from −360° to +360°.
    This eliminates the requirement to alter the Firing Order in Ignition Parameters for some unusual applications.

    http://documents.holley.com/techlibr...0_overview.pdf (Holley EFI V4 Software Overview - Page 1)
    Yes, I was referring to changing the Firing Order. When I got my FAST distributor, the Holley was not out yet. I now use a 60-2 crank trigger and only use the FAST distributor for a cam sync.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    14,020

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 81 TransAm View Post
    I now use a 60-2 crank trigger and only use the FAST distributor for a cam sync.
    Smart move. Holley's 60-2 & 36-1 crank trigger kits are great. I'll never use a distributor based crank sensor (or a distributor) again.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.

    '78 BRONCO: 508" stroker, TFS heads, 11:1 comp ratio, Dominator MPFI & DIS, cold air induction, Spal dual 12" fans/aluminum radiator, dual 3" exhaust/Magnaflow mufflers, Moroso vacuum pump, Accusump, engine oil & trans fluid coolers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, A/C, Lentech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2500 RPM converter, 3:1 Atlas II, modified Dana 44/60-lockers-4.10s, hydroboost/4-disc brakes, ram-assist/heim joint steering, Cage long radius arms, traction bars, 4" Skyjacker lift, 35" mud tires

  10. #10

    Default

    Will you all elaborate just a bit on why that's better? I assume more signals per revolution so more resolution, BUT where do you see the real work gains? One thing I'd like is to be able to pull or advance timing for more degrees than that which separates post (45?) with out crossfire.

    I took my wife out for a movie and a dinner, and she commented on the hard start herself, LOL. I hate it when they do that...feel how smooth it is? Look at my touchscreen, feel some power, and a female has a 6th sense to pick the ONE thing giving you some problems, LOL!!!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
About us
Holley has been the undisputed leader in fuel systems for over 100 years. Holley carburetors have powered every NASCAR® Sprint® Cup team and nearly every NHRA® Pro–Stock champion for four decades. Now, Holley EFI is dominating the performance world as well as our products for GM's LS engine. Holley's products also include performance fuel pumps, intake manifolds & engine dress–up products for street performance, race and marine applications. As a single solution, or partnered with products from other Holley companies - Hooker Headers, Flowtech Headers, NOS Nitrous, Weiand, Earl's Performance Plumbing, or Diablosport - Holley products can give you the edge you need over the competition.
Join us