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Thread: Holley 160 lb/hr Injectors With Methanol

  1. #1

    Default Holley 160 lb/hr Injectors With Methanol

    Looking at using a set of Holley 160 lb/hr injectors in a Methanol fed Small Block Chevy. The engine is naturally aspirated. What power capability would these injectors have on Methanol? Any down falls to using these injectors with Methanol? I know a lot of people that use 220 lb/hr Siemens Injectors with great success, but not sure we need that large or that expensive. BTW, it will be running with 60 psi of fuel pressure.
    Last edited by BLN355; 11-28-2016 at 04:58 PM.

  2. #2
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    With Methanol, you generally need bigger injectors, but depending on your power needs/goals, they may work just fine.
    We use them on my buddy's truck, but he's using a mechanical fuel pump and a base pressure of 75 psi.

    With 60 psi base pressure, they will be good to roughly 1200-1250 Flywheel horsepower from basic BSFC Math. In reality it ends up a bit less as most engines don't follow BSFC Math exactly.

    You can then figure that any automatic transmission/drivetrain will eat up about 30%-35% for what you will see to the tire. So at best, maybe 850-900 to the tire.

    Otherwise, no real issues, but you may want to consider making two tunes, one on gas and one on methanol.
    You will need to flush the system on a regular basis with gasoline, especially if you let it sit for any length of time.
    We typically flush the system out when we are ready to load it back on the trailer to go home from the track, or anytime we are going to park it for more than a day or two.
    Basically run gas through it for a few minutes before you store it, and you can store it for extended lengths of time with the gas in the system.

    Make sure all of your lines are PTFE or Stainless, and only use a Plastic or Stainless fuel cell with no foam in it.
    Otherwise, you will be cleaning injectors OFTEN, as Methanol will corrode regular steel and aluminum, and will eat away at rubber hose as well.
    Make sure your fuel filter is a removable cleanable stainless element. Cardboard/paper/cloth elements will corrode and collapse and cause lots of problems.
    Make sure you also have a pre & post filter for your pump.
    -Scott
    Don't forget to check out progress on my Race Car:
    Project Blasphemy - 8.07 @ 171
    Low 8 Second Street Car

  3. #3
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    Scott, doing a little research on any possible issues with 160 lb/hr injectors & E85 and came across this thread. I'm having some serious fuel delivery issues that have gotten increasingly worse. I run pump E85 but it gets checked and put in the cell through a funnel with a steel mesh filter. The post pump filter is a 35-micron steel-mesh System 1. The pumps are a Bosch 044 & AEM380 in parallel with the Holley turning on the AEM at 150 kPa. The 2nd pump also has a 21V BAP. After sorting through some transmission & WG spool-up issues, I tested Friday night with twin 38 mm WGs replacing a 66 mm and was rewarded with a 1.196, but had ignition cut at 2.5sec because the 38mm gates had a lot more boost with the same dome pressure as the 66 mm. The problem though is ridiculously high Injector DC/Fuel Flow and of course engine wanting to go lean.

    I have tested the 2nd fuel pump turn on, removed the filter element in case it was too restrictive, and turned off the BAP so it just passes 13.8V to the AEM pump. I use a thick RJE plastic cell with no foam and Aeroquip AQP (synthetic rubber) lines with some of the smaller/shorter lines being PTFE. I check the filter element on a regular basis and it's always whistle clean. I pull plugs at least once every trip to the track and check with a loupe. Not sure what else to check which is why I am inquiring about the injectors. Injectors are fairly new, so is the AEM pump which replaced a 2nd Bosch. Other than that, same basic setup for years. If there is something in my GF causing it, I can't find it.

    Here's a screen shot from a 2nd gear 14 psi pull today. Numbers speak for themselves. Note that FP is 58 psi from a 43.5 psi base + 14.2 psi boost.

    Scottie
    Turbo LS Mustang
    8.71 @ 156.79

  4. #4
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    I would clean your injectors.
    E85 is come corrosive stuff.
    And unless your entire fuel system is plastic/PTFE/Stainless steel, you will have issues with E85 in a very short time period.

    You absolutely can not use rubber lines with E85. It dissolves it/breaks it down, and it will get up into the injectors and clog them up.
    Also, E85 is hygroscopic, meaning it absorbs water from the air.
    So anything metal that is not stainless will rust and corrode and it will make its way into the injectors.
    The water in the fuel will also create a "gel like substance" that will plug up the injectors as well.
    It will do a number on all o-rings in your system. In general you need to replace the o-rings on any part of the fuel system once you take it apart ONCE.
    -Scott
    Don't forget to check out progress on my Race Car:
    Project Blasphemy - 8.07 @ 171
    Low 8 Second Street Car

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    Scott, thanks for the reply. Aeroquip AQP is synthetic, not natural rubber, and is compatible as per Eaton. Been in the car for several years and have never seen the slightest trace of anything breaking down. Also, the only metal in the fuel system are anodized aluminum fittings & fuel rails. Having said that, I have been replacing sections with PTFE and will go ahead and finish the rest of the system. I'll get the injectors cleaned & flowed and hope that's the issue. Thanks again.
    Scottie
    Turbo LS Mustang
    8.71 @ 156.79

  6. #6
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    What Scott said. I've frequently seen this injector clog issue with E85. (Several Turbo Buick applications). Some are so obvious, that the crud is piled up around the inlet of the injectors. There are alky o-rings and stainless filter baskets available.
    Injector Inspector
    USAF 1960-1964
    Drag racing since 1955

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    Not doubting it's probably an injector/E85 problem. Never having ever seen the infamous E85 black goo or any signs of corrosion, breakdown, etc., in over 4 years of using it. I was just curious if it might be a compatibility issue. Buddy had a similar issue with a set of ID2000s. Pulled the injectors this morning to send off to be cleaned/flowed. No external signs of crud.

    Chuck, I probably know you from the TurboBuick.com/TurboBuicks.com days. I had the Turbo V6 powered 240Z.
    Scottie
    Turbo LS Mustang
    8.71 @ 156.79

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottie-GNZ View Post
    Chuck, I probably know you from the TurboBuick.com/TurboBuicks.com days. I had the Turbo V6 powered 240Z.
    Yep. Still hanging around there. I'm trying to get the 86T/LS turbo car up & running. Having WAAAY too much "fun".
    Injector Inspector
    USAF 1960-1964
    Drag racing since 1955

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    I hear you. I'll quit when I need help getting in the car.
    Scottie
    Turbo LS Mustang
    8.71 @ 156.79

  10. #10
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    Dusting this one off to give an update. It was indeed an injector problem, but nothing to do with E85. Turns out I had one bad injector in the set I purchased that was failing intermittently, and now it's completely dead, not responding to activation from a 9V battery. The other seven tested fine and I hope I just have one bad and not the batch. Of course, it's pass the 90-day warranty period.
    Scottie
    Turbo LS Mustang
    8.71 @ 156.79

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