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Thread: No Spark

  1. #41
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    AH! So it actually was backwards. Being an Engineer, I use the absolute value of negative numbers very casually, and I got it wrong from time to time. OK. I took the Base Timing Table from MPI48BB245HEI and now it's ordered the correct way, but the values are 25° to 45°. I assume that there's a 15° adder somewhere, because subtracting 15° from every value would offset values in the table by the amount necessary to bring the timing back to near the GM recommended values of 10°-35°? Or am I incorrect again?

    25.0 25.0 25.0 25.8 27.1 28.5 29.9 31.3 32.6 34.0 34.0 34.0 34.0 34.0 34.0 34.0
    25.0 25.0 25.0 25.8 27.1 28.5 29.9 31.3 32.6 34.0 34.0 34.0 34.0 34.0 34.0 34.0
    25.0 25.0 25.0 26.0 27.4 28.9 30.4 31.8 33.3 34.8 34.8 34.8 34.8 34.8 34.8 34.8
    25.0 25.0 25.0 26.2 27.8 29.4 30.9 32.5 34.1 35.7 35.7 35.7 35.7 35.7 35.7 35.7
    25.0 25.0 25.0 26.4 28.1 29.8 31.4 33.1 34.8 36.5 36.5 36.5 36.5 36.5 36.5 36.5
    25.0 25.0 25.0 26.6 28.4 30.1 31.9 33.7 35.5 37.3 37.3 37.3 37.3 37.3 37.3 37.3
    25.0 25.0 25.0 26.8 28.7 30.6 32.5 34.4 36.3 38.2 38.2 38.2 38.2 38.2 38.2 38.2
    25.0 25.0 25.0 27.1 29.3 31.4 33.6 36.2 38.2 39.7 39.7 39.7 39.7 39.7 39.7 39.7
    25.0 25.0 25.0 27.5 29.8 32.7 35.9 37.9 40.2 41.1 41.1 41.1 41.1 41.1 41.1 41.1
    25.0 25.0 25.0 27.6 31.0 35.5 38.2 40.6 42.1 42.5 42.5 42.5 42.5 42.5 42.5 42.5
    25.0 25.0 25.0 27.0 32.0 37.2 40.8 42.7 44.0 44.0 44.0 44.0 44.0 44.0 44.0 44.0
    25.0 25.0 25.0 27.0 32.0 38.0 42.0 44.0 44.0 44.0 44.0 44.0 44.0 44.0 44.0 44.0
    25.0 25.0 25.0 27.0 32.0 38.0 42.0 44.0 44.0 44.0 44.0 44.0 44.0 44.0 44.0 44.0
    25.0 25.0 25.0 27.0 32.0 38.0 42.0 44.0 44.0 44.0 44.0 44.0 44.0 44.0 44.0 44.0
    25.0 25.0 25.0 27.0 32.0 38.0 42.0 44.0 44.0 44.0 44.0 44.0 44.0 44.0 44.0 44.0
    25.0 25.0 25.0 27.0 32.0 38.0 42.0 44.0 44.0 44.0 44.0 44.0 44.0 44.0 44.0 44.0
    You can never have too much horsepower.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by fitz View Post
    I assume that there's a 15° adder somewhere, because subtracting 15° from every value would offset values in the table by the amount necessary to bring the timing back to near the GM recommended values of 10°-35°? Or am I incorrect again?
    No! The Base Timing Table is exactly that. This is user-programmable EFI tuning. You enter whatever values you deem appropriate in the Base Timing Table. The base calibrations are just a starting point to create your Global File.

    EFI Software Help Information/Instructions:
    ‒ On the top Toolbar, click "Help" & "Contents". This opens all Help topics.
    ‒ When navigating the software, click "Help ?", drag it to any parameter and click again.
    ..This automatically opens the definitions for that specific parameter.
    ‒ Tuning information can be read by clicking the F1 key, when you're viewing any screen.
    http://documents.holley.com/techlibr...10555rev17.pdf (Holley EFI Wiring Manual & Diagrams)
    http://documents.holley.com/techlibrary_199r10544.pdf (Holley EFI Help/Instructions Overview)
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....ents-Read-This! (Initial Checks & Adjustments - Read This!)
    Open the Holley EFI software "Help" Contents ("Help" drop down menu), and read "Step-By-Step Beginners Tuning".
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/3000 RPM converter, FPP aluminum driveshaft, FPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 MT tires.

  3. #43
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    Danny: I was referring to the Offset parameter that's available by highlighting the entire Base Timing Table then right clicking on the table. The pop-up menu offers an "Offset" that when you enter a negative value all entries in the table are reduced by that value. If I do that and select -15 degrees the Base Timing Table looks close to the values recommended by GM for my engine. Now, I realize that those numbers are for a carbureted engine with flywheel weights only (no vacuum) as a mechanical advance, but the resulting change in the Base Timing Table gets it close to the advance curve GM supplied with the original distributor. Since I have yet to test to see if I really have spark (parts I need to speed up the starter from 6:1 to 3.25:1 were delayed by UPS until this afternoon), I thought that doing this would get the errors out of the fuel & spark tables so I could test for spark with no surprises buried in the software. Like a minimum cranking RPM before spark is enabled that is totally undisclosed in any of the literature. If I do get spark with the bad crimps repaired and the new Base Timing & Fuel Tables, I will toast you with a shot of 30 year old single malt Scotch, because I will have gone from a dead engine to one I have a chance of starting thanks to your patience & good advice.

    If it runs, no matter how rough, I can tune it. At the moment, I haven't seen this thing generate a spark. All I need now are the gears for the starter drive Meziere sent last Thursday.
    You can never have too much horsepower.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by fitz View Post
    Danny: I was referring to the Offset parameter that's available by highlighting the entire Base Timing Table then right clicking on the table. The pop-up menu offers an "Offset" that when you enter a negative value all entries in the table are reduced by that value.
    Yes, you can use the "Offset Selected" function to build your Base Timing Table. I know exactly what it is, and how it's used. LOL! My point is, the displayed cell numbers on the Base Timing Table are actual ignition timing values (aside from any active Modifiers). I think we're on the same page now.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/3000 RPM converter, FPP aluminum driveshaft, FPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 MT tires.

  5. #45
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    Danny: Just finished reinstalling the starter with the new gearset. RPM on the engine is definitely up, but still no spark. Crank & cam signals are getting to the ECU, but there's no ignition trigger to the MSD box. Pin A6 on the ECU connector shows continuity to the MSD trigger, but still no joy. Here's a link to a new System Log: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ofigsl35la...021418.SL?dl=0. I'm fresh out of ideas. Fitz
    Last edited by fitz; 11-02-2016 at 07:41 PM.
    You can never have too much horsepower.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by fitz View Post
    Here's a link to a new System Log: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ofigsl35la...021418.SL?dl=0.
    You're only cranking the engine at 26 RPM. Your System Log indicates it takes 2.3 seconds to turn one crank revolution (4 crank pulses). 60 ÷ 2.3 = 26 RPM.
    The distributor & camshaft rotate at half speed of the crankshaft. The distributor rotates once (8 crank pulses) for every two crankshaft rotations.
    A V8 crank trigger kit signals 4 times per crankshaft rotation. A V8 distributor has an 8x crank reluctor, and signals 4 times per crankshaft rotation.

    I have an idea to prove if the slow cranking speed is causing the lack of RPM signal.
    Remove the distributor from the engine, and reconnect it to the EFI main harness.
    Disconnect the fuel injector harness, and turn the ignition switch on (don't crank it).
    Manually spin the distributor shaft (gear) by hand. You'll be able to spin it very fast.
    View the RPM channel on the EFI software's Data Monitor. Does it now display RPM?
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/3000 RPM converter, FPP aluminum driveshaft, FPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 MT tires.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Cabral View Post
    I have an idea to prove if the slow cranking speed is causing the lack of RPM signal.
    Remove the distributor from the engine, and reconnect it to the EFI main harness.
    Disconnect the fuel injector harness, and turn the ignition switch on (don't crank it).
    Manually spin the distributor shaft (gear) by hand. You'll be able to spin it very fast.
    View the RPM channel on the EFI software's Data Monitor. Does it now display RPM?
    I was afraid you were going to suggest that, but I was thinking the same thing. It takes about three hours work to do that. Top of the manifold, all plug wiring & distributor cap must come off to get the distributor out. But I need that answer, so here goes.
    You can never have too much horsepower.

  8. #48
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    Well since it's so much work, you can first try removing all the spark plugs, and see if the increased cranking RPM (due to no compression) is fast enough to generate an RPM signal. It's not as good of a test, but it might be enough to prove the point (then you wouldn't need to remove the distributor). Don't forget to disconnect the fuel injector harness.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/3000 RPM converter, FPP aluminum driveshaft, FPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 MT tires.

  9. #49
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    I didn't want to seem like I was whining. As you can see from the photo, it's pretty ugly back there where the distributor lives, but I'm going to pull it anyway. Good excuse to check how it's synced anyway.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by fitz; 11-03-2016 at 06:30 AM.
    You can never have too much horsepower.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by fitz View Post
    I didn't want to seem like I was whining. As you can see from the photo, it's pretty ugly back there where the distributor lives...
    Wow. You're a good candidate for a distributorless ignition system. (Convert it to a dual sync/oil pump drive unit - LINK).
    EDIT: I mean convert the Holley EFI Dual Sync Distributor to a dual sync/oil pump drive unit, with DIS or CNP coil packs (LINK).

    ...but I'm going to pull it anyway. Good excuse to check how it's synced anyway.
    See post #48.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/3000 RPM converter, FPP aluminum driveshaft, FPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 MT tires.

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