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Thread: Inductive Delay Help - Ford TFI

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Cabral View Post
    That's been my experience too. However, I no longer advocate using the Ford TFI distributor, because too many Holley EFI users have had problems with it. (This is also corroborated by Holley Tech & one of their EFI Engineers.)
    Based on your experience, what is a good ignition solution? Thanks, Shannon

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by lastdeadlast View Post
    Based on your experience, what is a good ignition solution?
    A Holley EFI distributorless ignition system (DIS or CNP). I've never dealt with someone who regretted it. Read link below.
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....3038#post33038 (Detailed Distributorless Ignition Conversion Information & Reasoning)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  3. #23
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    So, just doing a little research while I'm waiting for my TFI sensor. If I wanted to convert to DIS with SEFI, I would need:
    1. Holley DIS Kit: DIS
    2. Ford Explorer Cam Sync: Cam Sync
    3. Cam Sync Pigtail: Pigtail
    4. Steel Distributor Gear: Gear
    5. MSD Crank Trigger Kit: MSD Crank Kit
    6. Holley Hall-Effect Sensor for MSD: Holley Sensor

    Am I missing anything? -Shannon

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by lastdeadlast View Post
    Am I missing anything?
    You'll also need to custom make spark plug wires.
    I used the MSD 34019 Super Conductor bulk wire roll and reused all my plug boots.
    The bulk ignition wire & terminal kit options are available separately (LINK - Page 3 & 4).

    FYI: As you know, you'll need to modify the crank/cam sensor harness (included in the Holley 556-101 DIS Kit) for your engine application.
    You'll have the sensor pigtails, but the cam sensor wiring will need to be lengthened, to reach the front cam sync unit (Ford engine).
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  5. #25
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    After further research, the biggest problem I see is getting the crank trigger mounted. I have ZERO clearance to add spacers to my accessories to accommodate the width of the MSD trigger. Unless someone has a trick solution, my only option is on the back side of the balancer. I'd have to check the clearance to see if I have any room there.

    I think for the time being, I'll try to get the TFI system to work. I'll keep researching this for sometime in the future. Heck, maybe Holley will get off their butts and make a kit for us SBF guys.

    -Shannon

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by lastdeadlast View Post
    After further research, the biggest problem I see is getting the crank trigger mounted. I have ZERO clearance to add spacers to my accessories to accommodate the width of the MSD trigger. Unless someone has a trick solution, my only option is on the back side of the balancer. I'd have to check the clearance to see if I have any room there.
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....6769#post66769 (Another spacing idea.)

    FYI: Holley EFI now sells their own Dual Sync Hall-Effect distributors (LINK).
    They're a small cap design, "plug & play" with Holley EFI, and no need for a modified Firing Order.
    The crank & cam sensor signals also provide sequential injection capability (MPFI applications).
    It's "plug & play" (into the 10-pin ignition connector on the EFI Main Harness) and requires a CD
    ignition box (Instructions). The MSD 6201 Digital 6A CDI box & 8253 HVC-2 coil are a great match.
    The MSD CD ignition box is wired as shown in the Holley EFI Wiring Manual:
    http://documents.holley.com/techlibr...10555rev17.pdf (Holley EFI Wiring Manual - Figure 11, Page 20)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AM7r-DauCak (Holley EFI Dual Sync Distributor - YouTube Tech Video)
    A blank cap (LINK) is available, if the user decides to convert to Coil-Near-Plug/DIS later (no CDI box).
    Of course, this component can also be used as a crank and/or cam sync/oil pump drive unit.

    The Custom Ignition Parameters (in System Parameters) for the Holley EFI Dual Sync Distributor:
    Ignition Type ............. ― "Custom"
    Crank Sensor Type ..... ― "1 Pulse/Fire"
    Sensor Type .............. ― "Digital Falling"
    Inductive Delay .......... ― "100.0 usec" ( Synchronization info, adjusted per application.)
    Ignition Reference Angle ― "50°" ( Inherent rotor-phasing of this unit.)
    Cam Sensor Type ........ ― "Single Pulse" ( "Not Used" for TBI, unless CNP ignition.)
    Sensor Type .............. ― "Digital Falling"
    Output Setup Type ..... ― "Points Output" ( CDI box ground trigger.)
    Dwell Time ................. ― "2.0 msec" ( Do not set this to 1.5 msec!)

    Heck, maybe Holley will get off their butts and make a kit for us SBF guys.
    Holley will soon be releasing their 36-1 crank trigger kit for small block Fords (requires 3/16" accessory drive spacing).
    Also, Innovators West sells a vibration damper with a Flying Magnet 4x crank trigger kit on the shell (LINK).
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  7. #27
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    So the Holley EFI distributor would only replace my OEM distributor (and the TFI). The Crane HI-6 CD box would stay in place, until such time that I upgraded to the DIS system? Sorry for all the questions. I'm learning as quickly as I can. -Shannon

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by lastdeadlast View Post
    So Holley EFI distributor would only replace my OEM distributor (and the TFI).
    Yes, the Holley EFI dual sync distributor provides the crank & cam signals.

    The Crane HI-6 CD box would stay in place, until such time that I upgraded to the DIS system?
    Yes, a CD ignition box must be used with the Holley EFI dual sync distributor, for single coil/distributor ignition applications.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  9. #29
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    OK, so one problem solved. I replaced the TFI module and the timing is holding steady with the Static Timing Set. Inductive Delay is set to 140 usec. Thanks for all the help with this.

    The new problem: Now the car is missing badly especially in the upper RPM. I think it's an electrical issue because even the timing light skips (I did re-enable Idle Spark & disable Static Timing Set). I bypassed the Crane module and it still does it. I wonder if it might be a bad coil? I'm wondering what the deal is with all this. The same ignition system ran great with the old Ford EFI. Any ideas? Back to the garage to debug. Thanks in advance.
    -Shannon

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by lastdeadlast View Post
    OK, so one problem solved. I replaced the TFI module and the timing is holding steady with the Static Timing Set. Inductive Delay is set to 140 usec. Thanks for all the help with this.
    You're welcome.

    The new problem: Now the car is missing badly especially in the upper RPM. I think it's an electrical issue because even the timing light skips (I did re-enable Idle Spark & disable Static Timing Set). I bypassed the Crane module and it still does it. I wonder if it might be a bad coil? I'm wondering what the deal is with all this.
    Record & review a short datalog of this ignition miss occurrence. Determine if the RPM signal dies also, when the ignition misfires. If so, the Hall-Effect PIP sensor/wiring could be failing. If not, the coil or other secondary ignition component could be at fault.

    Follow the "Ignition Signal Flow Chart" on Figure 11, Page 20 of the Holley EFI Wiring Manual to see what I mean:
    http://documents.holley.com/techlibr...10555rev17.pdf (Substitute Crank Trigger with distributor.)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

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