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Thread: HP in Turbo Buick - No Timing Control

  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Cabral View Post
    If it's not a GM HEI distributor application, it's the cam sensor signal input.

    The 10-pin Ignition Connector adapter is pinned as follows:
    A30 – Crank signal Input – Both digital and inductive (proper type must be selected in the software) (Pin A)
    A22 – Cam signal Input / Ignition Bypass Output– Both digital and inductive (proper type must be selected in the software)
    NOTE: If using a computer-controlled GM HEI Distributor, this pin will serve as the ignition bypass output (Pin B)
    A14 – IPU Ground (Pin C)
    Chassis Ground – (Pin D)
    A10 – Switched +12v (Pin E)
    A27 – NOT USED (Pin F)
    A14 – IPU Ground (Pin G)
    A28 – EST/Spout Output (Pin H)
    A14 – Shield Ground (Pin J)
    A14 - Shield Ground (Pin K)
    http://documents.holley.com/techlibr...10555rev17.pdf (Holley EFI Wiring Manual - Section 5.3, Page 11)

    Yep, that's much easier and good ignition power for a turbo engine.
    Figured as much after doing more reading.

    On the CNP wiring, since Tech Dept had me change the firing order in the software, do I need to fill out the firing order differently on the worksheet?
    http://documents.holley.com/techlibr...10555rev16.pdf (page 27) for reference.

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Cabral View Post
    If it's not a GM HEI distributor application, it's the cam sensor signal input.

    The 10-pin Ignition Connector adapter is pinned as follows:
    A30 – Crank signal Input – Both digital and inductive (proper type must be selected in the software) (Pin A)
    A22 – Cam signal Input / Ignition Bypass Output– Both digital and inductive (proper type must be selected in the software)
    NOTE: If using a computer-controlled GM HEI Distributor, this pin will serve as the ignition bypass output (Pin B)
    A14 – IPU Ground (Pin C)
    Chassis Ground – (Pin D)
    A10 – Switched +12v (Pin E)
    A27 – NOT USED (Pin F)
    A14 – IPU Ground (Pin G)
    A28 – EST/Spout Output (Pin H)
    A14 – Shield Ground (Pin J)
    A14 - Shield Ground (Pin K)
    http://documents.holley.com/techlibr...10555rev17.pdf (Holley EFI Wiring Manual - Section 5.3, Page 11)

    Yep, that's much easier and good ignition power for a turbo engine.
    So if I did it this way, I wouldn't even need a cam sensor input into the Holley? Where does it get the injector phasing from? I just cheated and used the 5V lead from my oil pressure sender plug, since I'm not running oil pressure into the Holley. Hooked that to the bypass lead on the module, and got my timing control working. I did have to change the crank reference angle to 70°, and change it from rising to falling to get it to all work properly, but seems good to go now. I checked it at 0°, 4°, 8°, 12° & 20° (timing marks on the stock tab) by locking the timing there and it was spot on all those. Hopefully it stays at high RPM too, and I don't nuke this thing, LOL!

    EDIT: Go to page 31 of that same diagram you linked, and you can see where I (and apparently the shop that did the initial install) got the "A27, Bypass Out" from . I may play around with it some day and try changing it to use the cam sensor wire, but I assumed the sequential injection needed that input. So far, it's working fine with the 5V sensor feed going to the bypass.
    Last edited by kwiktsi; 04-12-2016 at 04:14 PM.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwiktsi View Post
    So if I did it this way, I wouldn't even need a cam sensor input into the Holley? Where does it get the injector phasing from?
    Sequential fuel injection always needs a cam sync sensor. Waste-spark ignition doesn't, but Coil-Near-Plug ignition does.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/3000 RPM converter, FPP aluminum driveshaft, FPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 MT tires.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by radrace19 View Post
    On the CNP wiring...
    I think you mean waste-spark (worksheet).

    ...since Tech Dept had me change the firing order in the software, do I need to fill out the firing order differently on the worksheet?
    No, because ultimately, the engine cylinder numbers must remain the same.

    I think you mean page 26 (waste-spark worksheet).
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/3000 RPM converter, FPP aluminum driveshaft, FPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 MT tires.

  5. #15
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    We found that the best way to wire up a turbo Buick engine (Grand National/T-Type), is to use the stock Crank & Cam sensors into the Holley, bypass the stock ignition module completely, make a stand for 6 LS1 coils, and wire it up for Coil-Near-Plug. We then just take the tach output from J1A-28 directly to the Tach. Solves a lot of headache by doing it this way.
    -Scott
    Don't forget to check out progress on my Race Car:
    Project Blasphemy - 8.07 @ 171
    Low 8 Second Street Car

  6. #16

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    What do you use for crank & cam sensor settings in the Holley? Crank sensor on mine was originally set as rising, but the car would barely run like that, runs fine set to falling. Is this correct? What should the cam sensor be? It is currently rising as set by the initial shop that did the install. Thanks.

  7. #17
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    Custom Ignition Parameters

    Crank:
    1 pulse/fire
    Digital Falling
    Ignition Reference Angle - 190°
    Inductive Delay - 1 usec

    Cam:
    Single Pulse
    Digital Falling

    Firing Order:
    4-3-2-1-6-5
    (Purposely 3 cylinders off for the Holley ECU, because of crank/cam sync location as stock.)
    -Scott
    Don't forget to check out progress on my Race Car:
    Project Blasphemy - 8.07 @ 171
    Low 8 Second Street Car

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by S2H View Post
    Custom Ignition Parameters

    Crank:
    1 pulse/fire
    Digital Falling
    Ignition Reference Angle - 190°
    Inductive Delay - 1 usec

    Cam:
    Single Pulse
    Digital Falling

    Firing Order:
    4-3-2-1-6-5
    (Purposely 3 cylinders off for the Holley ECU, because of crank/cam sync location as stock.)
    Is that with the LSx coils? With my car, the timing seems to be dead on, using the stock module and the reference angle at 70°. The cam sensor is currently set to Rising and the car seems to run well, should I leave it or set it to Falling? Thanks for your input!
    Joe

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwiktsi View Post
    Is that with the LSx coils?
    Yes, GM LSx Coil-Near-Plug ignition.
    Output Setup: DIS Coil On Plug
    Dwell Time: 3.5-5.0 msec (← Read end of page 3 - LINK).

    With my car, the timing seems to be dead on, using the stock module and the reference angle at 70°. The cam sensor is currently set to Rising and the car seems to run well, should I leave it or set it to Falling?
    If that's the way the Holley engineer instructed you to configure it (due to the modified firing order/cam sync position), leave it alone.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/3000 RPM converter, FPP aluminum driveshaft, FPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 MT tires.

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Cabral View Post
    Yes, GM LSx Coil-Near-Plug ignition.
    Output Setup: DIS Coil On Plug
    Dwell Time: 3.5-5.0 msec (← Read end of page 3 - LINK).

    If that's the way the Holley engineer instructed you to configure it (due to the modified firing order/cam sync position), leave it alone.
    Engineer? LOL, I'm the one who figured out how to get it to work, and Radrace from page 1 told me to set it to 70°, which I experimented with 60-80° & 70° was dead on with my light. Haven't spoken with any engineers about setting things up, that's why I asked, ha ha. I bought the car already running and it was set up by a shop in Miami, who obviously didn't have the ignition setup correctly, because it was running in bypass with no timing control and once I got that working, the Ignition Reference Angle & Sensor Type that they setup were incorrect anyway . So, that leaves me wondering if the cam sensor is setup incorrectly as well now. Thanks. Joe

    OK, just to clarify here I'll start over and make sure there is no confusion, because I'm getting confused at this point using the stock ignition module with 5V going to the bypass to allow the Holley to control the timing and sequential injection, my car is currently set up as follows: 1 pulse/fire, digital falling 45 usec, 70° reference angle on the crank trigger. Single pulse, digital rising on the cam sensor and the firing order of 165423. Is this right or should I change anything? This is how it was set up at the shop that did the install with the exception of me changing the reference angle from 10° to 70° and from rising to falling as it wouldn't run how they had it once I got the ignition out of bypass. Thank you everyone for all your help! Joe

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