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Thread: Ford 2V, Holley smart coils, no spark (no cam signal).

  1. #1

    Default Ford 2V, Holley smart coils, no spark (no cam signal).

    Using the System Log, I get both crank & cam signals when using the "canned" 2V/4V ignition selection. But when using the custom configuration and set as the manual says (as mentioned in the "2.3 Special Cases, Case 1 Modular Ford" section of crank & cam sensors), I get crank activity, but no cam activity. Does anyone have the information that can be inputted to make this combo work? Please advise. Thanks.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Connecticut
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    22,683

    Default

    It's probably due to the wrong Magnetic Sensor Type "Filtering" & "Minimum Signal Voltage" parameters.
    http://documents.holley.com/199r10676rev.pdf (Magnetic Crank/Cam Input Filtering Parameters, Page 2)
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....4450#post54450 (Example: Wrong Magnetic Parameters, Post #25)

    Also, if you're temporarily testing it in non-sequential mode (cam sensor "Not Used"), enter the actual FORD firing order. The change in the
    Holley Firing Order is due to Ford's Modular cam sensor signal position. Don't forget to click "Save" (top Toolbar), and cycle the ignition switch.
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....ing-Holley-EFI (Ignition Timing Synchronization)
    CNP/COP/DIS & single coil/distributor ignition synchronization verification & troubleshooting information at the end of post #1.

    The Firing Order change is only required when using the Custom Ignition Parameters. It's not required when selecting a predefined Ignition Type.
    FYI: The Coyote Firing Order should remain "normal". In the Custom Ignition Parameters, it's already accounted for via the Coyote cam reading.
    Did you change the Firing Order in Ignition Parameters? The "bank swap" Firing Order change doesn't apply to Coyote engines:
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....m-Sensor-Setup (Read "2.3 Special Cases" - Ford Modular Setup in Custom Ignition Parameters)

    SOFTWARE
    Version 4.0.29 (V4.0 Build 29)
    •Changed packaged firmware version from V4.0 Build 63 to V4.0 Build 64

    FIRMWARE
    Version HEFI_4000640.eep (V4.0 Build 64) – For use with software versions 4.0.29
    Fixed firmware version V4.0 Build 63 issue where the following canned ignition types have a fixed .1 msec of
    ..dwell resulting in a no-start condition during cranking. The following ignition types were affected and corrected:
    • Gen III HEMI 36-2+2, Waste Spark Coils
    • Gen III HEMI 36-2+2, COP
    • Gen III HEMI 60-2, non-VVT
    • Ford Modular 2V/4V, 4.6 and 5.4, Waste-Spark Coils
    • Ford Modular 2V/4V, 4.6 and 5.4, COP
    http://documents.holley.com/techlibr..._revisions.pdf (V4 Revision Log)
    https://www.holley.com/support/resou...Fuel_Injection (V4 EFI Software)
    http://theefistore.com/index.php/sho...-sensor-detail (The EFI Store.com, Ford 4.6L Modular Hall-Effect Cam Sensor)
    http://redline-motorsports-inc.mysho...-4-6-5-4-fords (Redline-Motorsports.com, Ford 4.6L/5.4L Modular Hall-Effect Crank & Cam Sensor Adapters)
    The more robust Hall-Effect sensors are preferred because they're not susceptible to EMI/RFI interference/noise,
    and their digital square-wave signal strength is consistent, regardless of RPM (unlike the VR magnetic sine-wave).
    Also, the magnetic VR signal is weaker at cranking speeds.

    Another problem with using VR Magnetic sensors, is there's more tuning work. Hall-Effect is "set & forget".
    The VR Magnetic Sensor Type "Filtering" & "Minimum Signal Voltage" parameters need to be programmed.
    http://documents.holley.com/199r10676rev.pdf (Magnetic Crank/Cam Input Filtering Parameters, Page 2)
    You may have to adjust the Magnetic Sensor Type "Filtering" & "Minimum Signal Voltage" parameters.
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....4450#post54450 (Example: Wrong Magnetic Parameters, Post #25)

    Hall-Effect: 3-wire, square wave signal (digital), pulse generation
    VR Magnetic: 2-wire, sine wave signal (inductive), voltage generation
    http://www.electronicproducts.com/El...g_for_you.aspx (Hall-Effect vs VR Magnetic)
    The Hall-Effect crank & cam sensors are wired as shown in the Holley EFI Wiring Manual:
    http://documents.holley.com/techlibr...10555rev17.pdf (Holley EFI Wiring Manual - Figure 11/12, Page 20/21)

    Originally Posted by Danny Cabral
    The following information is only if you decide to put timing marks on the damper (#1 cylinder TDC identification & 30° example):
    If necessary, use a spark plug hole type piston stop & degree wheel to first establish TDC, then make a damper mark at 30°.
    FYI: This procedure can also be used to correctly install/position a crank trigger kit/cam sync unit at 60°, 180°, 195°, etc. (LINK).

    If using spark plug type piston stop, some people remove rocker arms from #1 cylinder to avoid the risk of valves contacting tool.
    Also, remove all spark plugs for easy turning force (no compression) to prevent damage from harsh piston-to-tool contact.

    There's nothing wrong with installing a timing tape. Just ensure it's the correct one for your diameter damper.
    You don't necessarily need a timing tape, because both timing synchronizations can be performed with one timing mark.
    Multiply the damper diameter by 3.14159 (Pi), then divide by 360°. The answer is the distance in inches for one degree.
    For a 30° timing mark, multiply this value by 30. Cut out this distance on a strip of paper to avoid a straight line measurement.
    Originally Posted by Danny Cabral
    Ignition Timing Cylinder Sequence Verification
    Ensure the Firing Order is entered correctly in Ignition Parameters (System ICF).
    Before the initial start, disconnect the fuel injector harness and verify
    at least, the first four cylinders in the firing order using a timing light.
    If your cylinders are firing in 90° intervals BUT in the wrong sequence,
    the coil harness is connected wrong (at the ECU or at the coil packs).
    Hopefully you have a fully degreed balancer or at least markings every 90°:
    1st cylinder, in firing order, should fire at 0° (or 15° - add whatever your cranking timing is)
    2nd cylinder, in firing order, should fire at 270° (or 285° - cranking timing added)
    3rd cylinder, in firing order, should fire at 180° (or 195° - cranking timing added)
    4th cylinder, in firing order, should fire at 90° (or 105° - cranking timing added)
    5th cylinder, in firing order, should fire at 0° (or 15° - cranking timing added)
    6th cylinder, in firing order, should fire at 270° (or 285° - cranking timing added)
    7th cylinder, in firing order, should fire at 180° (or 195° - cranking timing added)
    8th cylinder, in firing order, should fire at 90° (or 105° - cranking timing added)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  3. #3

    Default

    Adjusting the Minimum Signal Voltage solved the issue. Thanks Danny!

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