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Thread: Rich At Idle

  1. #1

    Default Rich At Idle

    The last time I drove my car, halfway through the drive, I notice smoke pouring from the tailpipes as well a rougher idle once at a stop sign. I was able to get the car home, but the garage reeks of unburnt fuel. The AFR gauge is showing that the air/fuel is as commanded. I tried new injectors (and adjusted the table accordingly), and changed from 6 range NGK plugs to 7 range NGKs (the 6s showed signs of being too hot) with no change in rich idle. I also unplugged power from the ECU for a while per suggestions I've read on the forum; also upgraded to V4 after reconnected. Fuel pressure looks good while just powering the pump with engine off. The only real change I noticed after this happened was that my fan and secondary pump ground triggers and VSS signal wire got scorched from header heat, but these have since been rerouted & repaired.
    Before this issue, the Learn Table had pulled 13% from the fuel table; now, the Learn Table is near -40% in this area.

    I'm out of ideas besides trying to create a new file as suggested by Holley Tech. I'll have to do that next week as I've got to finish holiday stuffs with the family this weekend.

    The engine is a SBC 383 with AFR180s, Comp XFI268 hydraulic roller cam, 1-3/4" long tubes, Stealth Ram intake with Holley 65 lb/hr injectors, and ProCharger D1-SC.

    I'd be glad to add any information I may have left out. Sorry for the jumbled thoughts; just trying to cover everything I've seen and done about this issue.

    Thanks, Dustin
    Spanish Fort, AL

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    Default

    It's possible the wideband O2 sensor has failed.
    Your situation seems very similar to these threads:
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....ning-very-rich!
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....sue-sputtering
    See if you're experiencing the same thing - wideband O2 sensor failure.

    Upload the last "known to be good" Global Folder if you have one, to determine if it's in the tune.
    If the Learn Table values are corrupted from a defective WBO2 sensor, the Learn Table must be cleared.
    If the engine runs properly every time you upload a "known to be good Global Folder", maybe the WBO2 sensor is defective.
    If so, try running the engine in Open Loop mode to ignore the WBO2 sensor. If it continues to run fine, it's a WBO2 sensor issue.

    You don't need to clear the Learn Table if you upload a new base calibration or a "known to be good" Global Folder.
    (A base calibration is what's used to create your Global Folder, so don't get confused by the Holley EFI terminology.)
    You can't just disable Closed Loop and test drive the vehicle. You must clear the Learn Table of the corrupted values, or upload the last "known to be good" Global Folder.

    Also, ensure there aren't any exhaust leaks upstream of the WBO2 sensor, and there's sufficient length of exhaust piping beyond the WBO2 sensor.
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....5760#post45760 (Scroll down to "Typical Idle/Running Issues".)
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....ension-Harness (More information in "Wideband O2 Sensor Notes")
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  3. #3

    Default

    I still haven't had time to mess with the car again; but yes, I have tried reloading the last good Global Folder. I didn't pay any attention to other areas of the map to see how much difference there was (if any), after this issue occurred, because the idle area was so different, it caught all my focus. I plan to try the Bosch wideband that came with my kit (currently running an NTK sensor) this weekend.

    The thing that concerns me most, is that it's pulling so much extra fuel, while still smells of fuel in the garage. It seems to be doing what it's supposed to; just not necessarily reading on the gauge correctly.

  4. #4
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Duts87ss View Post
    I plan to try the Bosch wideband that came with my kit (currently running an NTK sensor) this weekend.
    You're currently using the Holley/NTK WBO2 sensor? Is it programmed as such in Engine Parameters (System ICF)?
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  5. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Cabral View Post
    You're currently using the Holley/NTK WBO2 sensor? Is it programmed as such in Engine Parameters (System ICF)?
    Yes I am, and yes sir, it is.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    Default

    If the engine initially ran good when you uploaded the last "known to be good" Global Folder, then ran poorly soon afterwards, I'd suspect a defective WBO2 sensor. Try disabling Closed Loop (in System Parameters), and manually tuning the idle area of the Base Fuel Table.
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....e-Tuning-Notes (EFI Idle Tuning Notes)

    If you experience a failed WBO2 sensor on a fairly new EFI installation (low miles), ensure the current WBO2 sensor location isn't causing damage by exhaust condensation thermally shocking the sensor at startup and/or during the warmup period. If you suspect it is, install a sensor bung at a better location, use a taller O2 sensor bung or use an Innovate Motorsports HBX-1 to move the sensor probe out of the direct exhaust stream. I've been successfully using HBX-1 Heat-Sink Bung Extenders for many years.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  7. #7

    Default

    Already noted from your other posts. The HBX-1 has been on the car for about a week now, but I spent so much time trying different washer combinations to align it correctly, I didn't have time to do anything else.
    Last edited by Duts87ss; 01-08-2016 at 03:55 PM.

  8. #8

    Default

    Finally got to crank the car and let it idle for a while. Seems the new WBO2 sensor may have worked out. It's only pulling about 22-23% fuel at idle now, instead of the 40% it was pulling when I started having the rough idle issue. Now it seems that my IAC needs to either be replaced or cleaned; it's reacting very slow to throttle adjustments, and just inconsistent overall.

    With things running better, I may switch back to the Deka injectors after I've put a few miles on it. I've read & seen videos where Multec injectors (the Holley injectors that are installed now) lock up at around 50 psi. If I run them at 43.5 psi like factory GM stuff (in the 80s anyway), it won't take much boost to get to 50 psi. I'm hoping to get 8-10 psi out of the ProCharger.
    Dustin
    Spanish Fort, AL

  9. #9
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duts87ss View Post
    Seems the new WBO2 sensor may have worked out.
    Glad we found the problem. Thanks for updating this forum thread.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

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