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Thread: No VE based tuning option?

  1. #1
    WhatsADSM Guest

    Default No VE based tuning option?

    I was a little surprised to see that with the Holley everything needs to be tuned directly in fuel lb/hr.
    Makes it very difficult to visually see what is going on in the map.
    Engine size is known, fuel injector size known, fuel pressure known, MAP and IAT.

    Why can't I just tune fuel in VE like most of the other ECUs?
    It would make my life a million times easier, as well as actually KNOWING what the VE characteristics are.
    Update in the PC software at some point?

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhatsADSM View Post
    Makes it very difficult to visually see what is going on in the map.
    Why can't I just tune fuel in VE like most of the other ECUs.
    I completely disagree. The lb/hr unit of measure is the actual (real) amount of fuel the engine is consuming. It is a direct correlation to the amount of air the engine is inhaling at any point on the Fuel Table (speed-density EFI). Virtually all other ECUs use arbitrary values on their Fuel Tables (VE table). Also, you can transfer dynamometer lb/hr values right onto the Fuel Table.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  3. #3
    WhatsADSM Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Cabral View Post
    I completely disagree. The lb/hr unit of measure is the actual (real) amount of fuel the engine is consuming. It is a direct correlation to the amount of air the engine is inhaling at any point on the Fuel Table (speed-density EFI). Virtually all other ECUs use arbitrary values on their Fuel Tables (VE table). Also, you can transfer dynamometer lb/hr values right onto the Fuel Table.
    It's not arbitrary at all! In fact VE IS the control variable that is changing from engine to engine!

    Why should I have to manually calculate that the engine flows X amount more air at 2psi of boost versus 5 psi of boost. That's what computers are good at and it just makes my life harder. All I want to tune is the minor efficiency differences that exist in the engine between 2psi and 5psi (Ala VE).

    That's why if you look at most of the big name ECUs they all tune in VE. Simply because that is what is changing from engine to engine, and ultimately that is what your fuel delivery is based on. In fact in some ECUs I see (AEM comes to mind) that tune in "direct" units like bits or fuel flow rate, they also offer a 1-Dimensional table to do a base % enrichment versus load. And most tuners I encounter will put in a linear scalar into that table that effectively normalizes the base fuel table so that they can tune it (the base table) directly in VE.

    P.S. If you want to calculate what the engine is flowing for other ECUs that tune in VE just take your engine size and multiply by VE Which brings me to my next point... Why give me a system parameter for "engine size" if you make me calculate the final fuel flow anyways. It's redundant and a pointless parameter for fueling.
    Last edited by WhatsADSM; 03-14-2011 at 10:13 PM.

  4. #4
    Dr.Buick Guest

    Default

    The VE tables would make it way easier to tune for a normal guy. Fast, Big Stuff 3 and Motec all use VE tables. This is the only part I HATE about the Holley setup. I can have a Fast tuned in no time. This Holley takes forever, makes me want to junk it and start over with a FAST and I spent the money on a touch screen.

    It's a SBC with twin turbos on E85, we hand my 2000 HP car done in 2 hours with a FAST. we have 6-7 on a dyno so far and we are not even close. Make a change to VE and you will sell a lot more.

  5. #5
    Join Date
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    I guess everyone has their preference, however, the Holley EFI Fuel Table tunes the same way (RPM x kPa). If you need more fuel, increase the lb/hr value; less fuel, decrease the lb/hr value. It doesn't really matter to me what the number actually "means".

    I like the lb/hr unit of measure because you can change injector size without retuning the engine. Also, you can input dynamometer lb/hr values right onto the Fuel Table (WOT). I can't speak for 2000 HP race engines, however, the Self-Tuning/Learn function does an excellent job of tuning the Fuel Map for 90% of users.

    http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...39#post4419939 (Good point by Dennis Moore "64duece".)
    http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/sh...?post/2430773/ (Good point by Dennis Moore "64duece".)

    UPDATE - VE% tuning is now an option with the new V2 software/firmware:
    http://www.holley.com/assets/images/...V2%20flyer.pdf
    Last edited by Danny Cabral; 03-28-2011 at 01:06 PM.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

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