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Thread: Converting A GM 572 720 HP Crate Engine

  1. #1

    Default Converting A GM 572 720 HP Crate Engine

    This is for a Pro Touring car and eventually, will be converted to pump gas. Right now a 5 speed car. What I'm looking for are part numbers of what I need. We plan on reusing the MSD distributor but that's it. What else is needed? Preferred intake & ECU package, along with harnesses and sensors needed.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1fast10 View Post
    We plan on reusing the MSD distributor but that's it.
    Which MSD distributor is it? Is it Hall-Effect?
    The MSD 2357 (small cap) & 23451 (large cap) cam sync distributors already have the MSD 2348 Hall-Effect sensor.

    What else is needed? Preferred intake & ECU package, along with harnesses and sensors needed.
    Most people find this document very helpful:
    http://documents.holley.com/efi_sele...chart62914.pdf (Holley HP & Dominator EFI Component Selection Guide)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  3. #3

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    It has a standard MSD distributor. Can that be converted? Also, the front cover has provisions for a sensor; I'm assuming a crank trigger. Like the 8.1L has. What's the best option and cheapest route? We plan on buying a complete kit, and want it to look like a carbureted deal.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1fast10 View Post
    It has a standard MSD distributor. Can that be converted?
    If you can retrofit the MSD 2348 Hall-Effect sensor, that's what many people use:
    ½" x 20 threads. 1¼" length. It's not a "geartooth" type sensor.
    It needs its magnet flying around in the distributor (which I don't like).
    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/msd-2348 (Summit Racing)
    http://static.summitracing.com/globa...8_frm27049.pdf (Instructions)
    Or you can use a Hall-Effect "geartooth" type sensor (LINK) without installing a magnet.
    You could then simply cut off 7 of the 8 reluctor teeth, and use it as the ferrous target.

    The MSD 2357 (small cap) & 23451 (large cap) cam sync distributors already have the MSD 2348 Hall-Effect sensor.

    Excerpt from Holley EFI manual:
    NOTE - It is not advised to use a magnetic pickup distributor to directly feed the magnetic trigger input of the ECU. If the
    magnetic pickup distributor is connected to the ECU via the inductive pickup trigger wires, the pickup/rotor/cap phasing
    must be corrected. This operation may require a phaseable cap or rotor or possibly machining to the distributor and is
    therefore beyond the scope of most users. Even with the phasing corrected, the electrical noise inside the cap
    (due to the high voltage cap & rotor terminals) may be strong enough to cause electrical noise interference.
    It is advised to use a crank trigger system or a computer-controlled distributor.

    Although a Hall-Effect sensor is preferred, a distributor converted to DIS,
    theoretically should be able to use a VR magnetic pickup cam sensor.

    The more robust Hall-Effect sensors are preferred because they're not susceptible to EMI/RFI interference/noise,
    and their digital square-wave signal strength is consistent, regardless of RPM (unlike the VR magnetic sine-wave).
    Also, the magnetic VR signal is weaker at cranking speeds.

    Another problem with using VR Magnetic sensors, is there's more tuning work. Hall-Effect is "set & forget".
    The VR Magnetic Sensor Type "Filtering" & "Minimum Signal Voltage" parameters need to be programmed.
    http://documents.holley.com/199r10676rev.pdf (Magnetic Crank/Cam Input Filtering Parameters - Page 2)

    Hall-Effect: 3-wire, square wave signal (digital), pulse generation
    VR Magnetic: 2-wire, sine wave signal (inductive), voltage generation
    http://www.electronicproducts.com/El...g_for_you.aspx (Hall-Effect vs VR Magnetic)

    ...and want it to look like a carbureted deal.
    I'm the exact opposite. I don't want anything, that even remotely resembles a carburetor, on my engine.
    I like the sophisticated modern look, multi-port fuel injection, distributorless ignition, crank & cam sensors, etc.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  5. #5

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    So we can convert the MSD distributor, or buy a Hall-Effect one. Is that all that's needed? No crank sensor? Just the cam sensor?

    Currently this car uses an MSD 6AL. Does that have to be used still, or can that be eliminated with the HP ECU and keep the Hall-Effect distributor?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1fast10 View Post
    So we can convert the MSD distributor, or buy a Hall-Effect one. Is that all that's needed? No crank sensor? Just the cam sensor?
    The distributor's sensor is the crank sensor. A dual sync distributor has crank & cam sensors. The crank sensor is always required. The cam sensor (for sequential & CNP use) is what's optional.

    Currently this car uses an MSD 6AL. Does that have to be used still, or can that be eliminated with the HP ECU and keep the Hall-Effect distributor?
    Yes, a crank trigger or a Hall-Effect distributor (sensor only - no ignition module), must use a CD ignition box to fire the coil.
    http://documents.holley.com/techlibr...10555rev16.pdf (Holley EFI Wiring Manual - Section 8.8, Figure 11, Page 20)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  7. #7

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    Thanks for your help. I'm looking at kit 550-839. Other than that EFI kit, injectors & regulator what all would we need? I'd rather get a new distributor that works the best, or go to coil on plug. We're ordering in the next week or so. So any part numbers would help. I would like to eliminate the MSD box if possible, and use a distributor. But if not possible, I understand. Part numbers and I'll take our suggestions and make the purchase. We don't have the room to add a crank trigger to the front of the motor. The pulley is already in the fan shroud. So what ever we need.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1fast10 View Post
    I'd rather get a new distributor that works the best, or go to coil on plug. We're ordering in the next week or so. So any part numbers would help. I would like to eliminate the MSD box if possible, and use a distributor. But if not possible, I understand.
    You have to decide now if you want a CNP ignition or an actual distributor ignition. Usually, a coil per cylinder ignition system uses a crank trigger kit (crank sensor), and a cam sync unit (cam sensor). However, a FAST dual sync distributor (LINK) can be used without the cap & rotor.
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....Multiple-Coils (Additional Information - Read This!)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  9. #9

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    I've got to get him prices, so that's why I wanted both at the moment. If we do the FAST dual sync, and block off the cap, it's just a matter of the dual coil setup. What other harnesses should we do? This is a GEN 6 block, and the front cover has provisions for what looks like a crank sensor. But I'd rather not. We aren't looking at pulling the motor if we don't have too. So FAST dual sync, block off cap. And dual coil setup, the 559-839 kit, and I'm assuming one additional harness is that all we would need?

  10. #10

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    BTW, thanks a ton for the help & info. I'm completely EFI illiterate. I was looking at the 556-104 coils. If I do coil-near-plug for this car, I would like to eliminate the MSD box entirely. We also don't have the room to add the 60-2 crank trigger to the front drive. So from what I've researched, so far it's either the EFI Connections GEN 6, BBC crank sensor which is behind the front cover, or I'm assuming we can use a FAST or Accel dual sync distributor. That's what we would like to do, budget permitting. If not, I assume the FAST dual sync and MSD box is the other route.

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