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Thread: Tuning MY Avenger Setup (Specific To My Vehicle)

  1. Default Tuning MY Avenger Setup (Specific To My Vehicle)

    Thanks again for all your help in my other thread Danny.

    Reading through the links you supplied, this post specifically, it makes me remember all the time I spent tuning my HEI setup: finding the right weights, springs, plate & vacuum can and the time spent building my ignition curve. Also, finding my best initial timing (about 10° BTDC), and I did sync the timing with the ECU.

    I set my initial timing with the timing gun to 10°, and now the ECU controls timing, so the dizzy is locked down. During my drive home yesterday I drove it under varying conditions and grades. I was surprised to get it to ping on level ground with a quick burst of throttle, while already rolling (usually pings going uphill under heavy load). Plus I noticed a bit of a bog when stabbing the pedal. I know I have a bunch more tuning to do.

    I also need to measure and adjust the fuel pressure setting. I have a fluid filled Fuel Pressure gauge with 1/8" thread. Do you know of an extension I can use to install it on the TBI full time?

    Still need to adjust the Idle Speed screw and re-calibrate TPS, will do when I have more time next week (not driving it till then anyway). I want to lower my curb idle RPM, 800 seems a bit high now, even though that's what I was with the carb... might try 750.

    I also noticed after starting the truck this morning that it doesn't run at fast idle when cold like the automatic choke did on my carb. Should I use the Coolant Enrichment setting to adjust this? (contemplating adjusting RPM Activation setting too... see below - but not until a sufficient time for the ECU to self learn is allowed)

    Another thing I notice, though, is the sound the engine makes is totally different now, it has a very pronounced vacuum-like sucking noise, much more than before. Guessing that's normal.

    After the initial tuning and Learning Phase I may want to make some other adjustments based on reading of the manuals.

    I think the Fuel > Acceleration setting could handle the bog on pedal stab, but will I be able to modify my timing curve throughout my RPM range to prevent pinging?
    Or should I use Advanced Settings > Acceleration Enrichment to prevent the bog? My truck is a bit heavy...

    In reading through the Advanced Tuning options, I notice the RPM Activation setting. While my cam is not big, it does have a significant amount of overlap. I was wondering I could utilize this feature at idle speeds and wonder if this could help the rich smell of the exhaust in the garage...

    I wonder if there is a way to convert the Oil & Fuel Pressure sensor plugs into something useful since I am not running either. Do you run (or most folks) either of these sensors, and are they just safety checks and balances (ECU kills ignition if one fails) or do they serve another purpose too?

    Also, is there any way to enable the Knock Sensor on the Avenger?

    Lastly, should I upgrade the firmware on the ECU? - don't ask me what it is ATM...but I know it's probably outdated.

    I think that's all for now.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by octanejunkie View Post
    I was surprised to get it to ping on level ground with a quick burst of throttle, while already rolling (usually pings going uphill under heavy load).
    Is the ignition timing fully synchronized? At idle and at higher RPM (Inductive Delay)?

    I also need to measure and adjust the fuel pressure setting.
    This should have been accomplished before starting the engine.

    I have a fluid filled Fuel Pressure gauge with 1/8" thread. Do you know of an extension I can use to install it on the TBI full time?
    I wouldn't use an extension fitting; remote mount it with a short length of -3AN hose.
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....2756#post32756 (Related Forum Thread)

    Still need to adjust the Idle Speed screw and re-calibrate TPS, will do when I have more time next week (not driving it till then anyway).
    Yes, perform this adjustment when the engine reaches normal operating temperature.

    ...but will I be able to modify my timing curve throughout my RPM range to prevent pinging?
    Of course! With ECU controlled timing, the Base Timing Table provides a full ignition timing advance map.

    One thing I notice, though, is the sound the engine makes is totally different now, it has a very pronounced vacuum-like sucking noise, much more than before. Guessing that's normal.
    Adjust the idle speed screw on throttle body, to achieve an IAC Position of about 2% at hot idle.
    Remember to perform another TPS AutoSet, whenever you adjust the idle speed screw on the throttle body.
    Ensure the proper type of Advanced Idle Control is selected in Idle Settings. "Slow" may provide the best idle quality.

    Do you run (or most folks) either of these sensors, and are they just safety checks and balances (ECU kills ignition if one fails) or do they serve another purpose too?
    The fuel & oil pressure transducers are completely optional. The engine runs the same with or without them.
    The fuel & oil pressure transducers are used for Data Monitoring, Data Logging and setup Outputs based on fuel & oil pressure.

    This is not to be confused with the "Actual System Pressure" fuel parameter (in Engine Parameters),
    which must be entered accurately because the ECU does use this single value for lb/hr calculations.
    With TBI, the Actual System Pressure is measured anytime engine is running (no vacuum reference hose), or key-on/engine-off pump running.
    With MPFI, the Actual System Pressure is measured with the vacuum reference hose temporarily disconnected, or key-on/engine-off pump running.

    Also, is there any way to enable the Knock Sensor on the Avenger?
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....ors-Holley-EFI (Knock Sensor Information)

    Lastly, should I upgrade the firmware on the ECU?
    Yes, if it isn't the latest firmware version.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: Dominator MPFI & DIS, A/C, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/X-pipe/shorty headers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  3. Default

    Thanks for the copious reply as usual Danny!

    Looking for fittings to mount my fuel pressure gauge remotely as suggested.
    Once I get an actual reading, can I adjust the pressure on the TBI or just adjust the entered value in the ECU?

    Great link to setting up the knock sensor! Will this sensor work?
    http://m.summitracing.com/search/pro...er/gm-10456288

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    Quote Originally Posted by octanejunkie View Post
    Once I get an actual reading, can I adjust the pressure on the TBI or just adjust the entered value in the ECU?
    Adjust the TBI unit's fuel pressure to the specification in the Avenger EFI Instruction Manual, and enter that value in the ECU.

    Great link to setting up the knock sensor! Will this sensor work?
    http://m.summitracing.com/search/pro...er/gm-10456288
    If you know the knock sensor's Frequency (kHz), you can use it.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: Dominator MPFI & DIS, A/C, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/X-pipe/shorty headers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  5. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Cabral View Post
    Adjust the TBI unit's fuel pressure to the specification in the Avenger EFI Instruction Manual, and enter that value in the ECU.
    OK. Got a chance to measure the fuel pressure off the port on the TBI, within 3 tests it measured an average of 19 psi. First test highest at about 20, and each successive test it dropped by about 1 psi each time (19 and 18, respectively).
    Manual states 21 psi on page 11: "The 4 bbl TBI systems are designed for an operating pressure of 21 PSI. Although this is factory pre-set, it is ideal that it be checked."
    For now I entered 20 where it used to say 21, but I will adjust the actual pressure to 21 and reset. I assume that the adjustment to the fuel pressure regulator is the allen screw located on the rear of the TBI between the inlet and return ports, yes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Cabral View Post
    If you know the knock sensor's Frequency (kHz), you can use it.
    Summit lists this knock sensor as the "replacement part" for the GM part number specified in the link...assuming frequency is the same. (Famous last words, I know.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by octanejunkie View Post
    OK. Got a chance to measure the fuel pressure off the port on the TBI, within 3 tests it measured an average of 19 psi. First test highest at about 20, and each successive test it dropped by about 1 psi each time (19 and 18, respectively).
    What? Why isn't your fuel pressure consistent? How were you measuring this?

    Manual states 21 psi on page 11: "The 4 bbl TBI systems are designed for an operating pressure of 21 PSI. Although this is factory pre-set, it is ideal that it be checked."
    For now I entered 20 where it used to say 21, but I will adjust the actual pressure to 21 and reset.
    Yes, 21 psi. Ensure the fuel pressure is properly adjusted and the "Actual System Pressure" is accurately entered in Engine Parameters.
    With TBI, the Actual System Pressure is measured anytime engine is running (no vacuum reference hose), or key-on/engine-off pump running.
    With MPFI, the Actual System Pressure is measured with the vacuum reference hose temporarily disconnected, or key-on/engine-off pump running.

    I assume that the adjustment to the fuel pressure regulator is the Allen screw located on the rear of the TBI between the inlet and return ports, yes?
    Yes, turning the 5/32" Allen setscrew inward (clockwise), increases fuel pressure.
    https://www.holley.com/products/fuel...es/parts/512-1 (Holley TBI Fuel Pressure Regulator Diaphragm Kit)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: Dominator MPFI & DIS, A/C, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/X-pipe/shorty headers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  7. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Cabral View Post
    What? Why isn't your fuel pressure consistent? How were you measuring this?
    I connected an 1/8" NPT close nipple and female coupler with my fuel pressure gauge to the test port on the inlet side, and let the pump pressurize the system and read the highest value during the pump's prestart five second priming. Vacuum hose was connected but engine was not started...guess I could have started the engine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Cabral View Post
    Yes, 21 psi. Ensure the fuel pressure is properly adjusted and the "Actual System Pressure" is accurately entered in Engine Parameters.
    With TBI, the Actual System Pressure is measured anytime engine is running (no vacuum reference hose), or key-on/engine-off pump running.
    Aside from direct wiring the pump, bypassing the ECU's control, how can I easily get the pump to run with key-on/engine-off?

    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Cabral View Post
    Yes, turning the 5/32" allen setscrew inward (clockwise), increases fuel pressure.
    https://www.holley.com/products/fuel...es/parts/512-1 (Holley TBI Fuel Pressure Regulator Diaphragm Kit)
    Thanks for the link! FWIW, the Instructions PDF linked to from that that page references a 1.5L and 2.0L TBI with different pressures.

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    Quote Originally Posted by octanejunkie View Post
    Vacuum hose was connected but engine was not started...guess I could have started the engine.
    What vacuum hose? The Avenger/HP type TBI unit doesn't have a vacuum referenced fuel pressure regulator.

    Aside from direct wiring the pump, bypassing the ECU's control, how can I easily get the pump to run with key-on/engine-off?
    Remove the System Relay and jump the two terminals, or temporarily change the "Fuel Pump Prime" time (Engine Parameters) to a value much longer than 5 seconds.

    Thanks for the link! FWIW, the Instructions PDF linked to from that that page references a 1.5L and 2.0L TBI with different pressures.
    Disregard those references.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: Dominator MPFI & DIS, A/C, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/X-pipe/shorty headers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  9. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Cabral View Post
    What vacuum hose? The Avenger/HP type TBI unit doesn't have a vacuum referenced fuel pressure regulator.
    My bad...disregard my banal comment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Cabral View Post
    Remove the System Relay and jump the two terminals, or temporarily change the "Fuel Pump Prime" time (Engine Parameters) to a value much longer than 5 seconds.
    Jumping the relay terminals seems easy enough, but can I also read & adjust with the engine running once my gauge is permanently installed?

    I've got some -3AN fittings & hose coming. I'll permanently install the gauge, get a better reading, and adjust the actual pressure this week.

    In the meantime, the truck pings a lot, more than when carbureted. I've retarded my timing across the board (25° idle, 32° cruise, 28° WOT), but I can't seem to keep it from pinging. Seems to be getting worse with time.

    EDIT: I adjusted the IAC down to 2% on a hot idle and did another TPS AutoSet. The idle is somewhat smoother and the sucking noise at idle is gone. But my vacuum at idle is lower than it used to be, now just below 15 in Hg, and the needle is nowhere near steady any more. I'm keeping my idle RPM at 800 because any less makes the idle even choppier.

    FWIW, driving after adjusting the IAC to 2%, it went up to 4% on its own. It was over 30% before I adjusted it.
    Last edited by octanejunkie; 12-28-2014 at 10:42 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by octanejunkie View Post
    Jumping the relay terminals seems easy enough, but can I also read & adjust with the engine running once my gauge is permanently installed?
    Yes. (I wasn't sure if you were ready to run the engine yet.)

    In the meantime, the truck pings a lot, more than when carbureted. I've retarded my timing across the board (25° idle, 32° cruise, 28° WOT), but I can't seem to keep it from pinging. Seems to be getting worse with time.
    Is the ignition timing fully synchronized? At idle and at higher RPM (Inductive Delay)?
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....ing-Holley-EFI (Ignition Timing Synchronization)

    But my vacuum at idle is lower than it used to be, now just below 15 in Hg, and the needle is nowhere near steady any more. I'm keeping my idle RPM at 800 because any less makes the idle even choppier.
    You'll most likely need to increase the idle timing (from 10°) to 20°. What size camshaft?
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....e-Tuning-Notes (EFI Idle Tuning Notes)

    FWIW, driving after adjusting the IAC to 2%, it went up to 4% on its own. It was over 30% before I adjusted it.
    It's OK if the IAC Position creeps up to 4% when thoroughly heat soaked.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: Dominator MPFI & DIS, A/C, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/X-pipe/shorty headers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

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