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Thread: New Avenger Install Won't Pump Fuel Or Spark

  1. Default [SOLVED] New Avenger Install Won't Pump Fuel Or Spark

    Installed a 550-400 system in my '59 Chevy pickup this past weekend and ran into some fundamental problems: fuel pump won't prime, or run, and I get no spark from new GM small HEI during cranking. GM small cap HEI chosen at setup for computer controlled timing.
    I tested the pump and flushed the fuel lines before initial calibration, so I know the pump works and the lines are clear.
    Initial calibration (pre start) went well, TPS AutoSet done and all monitors show readings, including TPS when pressing the pedal.
    To troubleshoot the fuel pump I tried swapping the relay module (not the entire wired base) and read voltage at both the red & green wires at the relay itself, no voltage to the pump. I bypassed the harness wiring and manually primed the pump, then tried to start, but I'm not getting any spark either. All fuses are good and red/white wire has voltage at ignition on and cranking. Looking at the harness schematic, it seems the red/white wire goes to a pin on the Ignition connector that is not even used. Is that correct? I'm using the 4-pin 568-304 adapter. And a stock GM 2-wire pigtail from coil to distributor. Other side of coil has + power and tach connection.
    FWIW, the distributor and coil are both new from Jegs.
    I'm not using a laptop yet, and wouldn't think I needed to so soon,
    but the TRUCK WILL NOT START AT ALL. What can I do from here?
    Last edited by octanejunkie; 12-23-2014 at 01:17 PM.

  2. #2
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    Typical No-Start Checks:
    Does the Data Monitor display legitimate cranking RPM?
    Does the Data Monitor display legitimate sensor values?
    Does a Datalog indicate any RPM Errors?
    Are the fuel injectors spraying fuel?
    Have you performed a TPS AutoSet?
    Is the fuel pressure set to proper psi?
    Does the fuel pump prime for 5 seconds at key-on?
    Is the ECU controlling timing?
    Does the timing light indicate there's spark/ignition?
    What does your ignition system consist of?
    Is the correct ignition type entered in Ignition Parameters?
    Are the spark plugs fuel fouled/wet?
    Are you running in sequential mode?
    If so, which cam sync sensor type is it?
    Is the ignition timing synchronized with the ECU?
    Is the keyed 12V red/white wire powered when cranking?
    Is the battery fully charged?
    The engine won't start if the throttle is opened beyond the "Clear Flood TPS" setting.
    Is it correctly wired as shown in the wiring manual? (Holley EFI Wiring Manual - LINK)
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....ents-Read-This! (Initial Checks & Adjustments - Read This!)

    If the Data Monitor doesn't display consistent RPM (after syncing), start troubleshooting the crank sensor.
    If all EFI wiring is correct, I'd record a Datalog and if necessary, a System Log also:
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....p-SL-Data-Logs (Sensor Diagnostics & Datalogs)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  3. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Cabral View Post
    Typical No-Start Checks:
    Does the Data Monitor display legitimate cranking RPM? WILL CHECK AGAIN.
    Does the Data Monitor display legitimate sensor values? SEEMS TO, YES.
    Does a Datalog indicate any RPM Errors? HAVEN'T CONNECTED COMPUTER YET.
    Are the fuel injectors spraying fuel? NO.
    Have you performed a TPS AutoSet? YES, and it was successful and the monitor shows pedal movement.
    Is the fuel pressure set to proper psi? YES, 21 psi.
    Does the fuel pump prime for 5 seconds at key-on? NO, no power to fuel pump at all.
    Is the ECU controlling timing? YES, using Jegs 555-40006 Small Cap GM HEI distributor and Jegs 555-40110 Dual Connector External Coil.
    Does the timing light indicate there's spark/ignition? NO, no spark at all.
    What does your ignition system consist of? Painless Harness 90501 Was working before EFI install, and new distributor/coil per above (was large cap GM HEI before).
    Is the correct ignition type entered in Ignition Parameters? YES.
    Are the spark plugs fuel fouled/wet? NO.
    Are you running in sequential mode? NOT SURE, how do I confirm? NA?
    If so, which cam sync sensor type is it? NO CAM SENSOR, this is an Avenger EFI 550-400.
    Is the ignition timing synchronized with the ECU? NO, have not hooked up computer yet.
    Is the keyed 12V red/white wire powered when cranking? YES.
    Is the battery fully charged? YES.
    The engine won't start if the throttle is opened beyond the "Clear Flood TPS" setting. YES.
    Is it correctly wired as shown in the wiring manual? (Holley EFI Wiring Manual - LINK) YES.
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....ents-Read-This! (Initial Checks & Adjustments - Read This!)

    If the Data Monitor doesn't display consistent RPM (after syncing), start troubleshooting the crank sensor. The only cam/crank sensor I know of is the Tan/Black wire in the 558-304 HEI ignition adapter which goes to A22-P1A.
    If all EFI wiring is correct, I'd record a Datalog and if necessary, a System Log also:
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....p-SL-Data-Logs (Sensor Diagnostics & Datalogs)
    Thanks for your quick response, Danny! I think I've bumped into you on other forums in the past. ChevyTalk perhaps?
    I've answered your questions to the best of my ability above, and I also called Holley Tech Support after posting, here is what they said:
    1) Check switched power on red/white, should be switched 12V at run and start
    -already confirmed with Painless, this wire is connected to the fused FUEL PUMP circuit on my Painless harness and is hot at both start and run.

    2) Check RPM reading on handheld MONITOR screen at crank, should go from STL to syncing to an RPM reading, if none, check HEI module:
    a) Remove the bypass tan/black (pin B) from 558-304 to eliminate ECU (WILL SHOW SPARK ON CRANK) at the coil (B on Ignition plug or A22 pin on P1A)
    b) If spark then problem is elsewhere, of no spark, HEI module could be bad.

    If everything tests good, check resistance on wires on main harness P1A to Ignition (all pins, A-K)
    -adjust on P1A by pushing white tab, that releases all pins, pull and swap, then reverse lock down pins.

    I also asked them to help me verify coil wiring (using Jegs external HEI coil) and as per manual 199r10555rev16.pdf my connections to the coils are good, but upon testing the point and Red wires coming from coil going to distributor, I get + voltage on BOTH wires with key in Run.
    Holley said, voltage should be on pink or red wire only, white wire should be ground NEG - not sure why this is happening. My coil is wired per diagram on Pg. 13 of 199r10555rev16.pdf except the wires are on opposite sides of the coil with same polarity (positive/negative).

    Going back up to my friend's house to test the CAM input bypass and see if I get spark. If not, I might try picking up a new module for the distributor at AutoZone.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Cabral View Post
    Typical No-Start Checks:
    Does the Data Monitor display legitimate cranking RPM? WILL CHECK AGAIN.
    This is the first important question I need answered.

    I think I've bumped into you on other forums in the past. ChevyTalk perhaps?
    Yeah, that's me. (Link)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  5. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Cabral View Post
    Originally Posted by Danny Cabral View Post
    • Typical No-Start Checks:
    Does the Data Monitor display legitimate cranking RPM? WILL CHECK AGAIN.
    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Cabral View Post
    This is the first important question I need answered.
    NO, in both Gauges and Monitor, RPM remains at STL.

    How can I easily bypass the Cam sensor in the HEI adapter (Tan/Blk wire) without cutting it?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by octanejunkie View Post
    NO, in both Gauges and Monitor, RPM remains at STL.
    That's why your engine won't run. It's not receiving an RPM signal. Inspect the ignition module.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  7. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Cabral View Post
    That's why your engine won't run. It's not receiving an RPM signal. Inspect the ignition module.
    My Bad. YES I DO.
    153 RPM while cranking...sorry.

    And the fuel pump still won't prime.
    And the ECU won't hold the right date & time.

  8. #8
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    Since the system relay activates the fuel pump and powers the fuel injectors/ignition coils (LSx, MOD & HEMI) at terminal #30.
    I'd start multimeter testing there. First, verify the red/white switched 12V wire isn't losing power from the ignition switch.

    Troubleshoot the system relay & its wiring. The system relay's coil is grounded at terminal #85 by the loose black wire.
    The ECU's J1A-A2, (22 AWG red wire) energizes +12V the system relay coil at terminal #86,
    during the 5 second Fuel Pump Prime time, when cranking, and when the engine is running.
    There's a fuse next to the system relay, that powers the relay (14 AWG red wire) at terminal #87.
    The system relay activates the fuel pump, and powers the fuel injectors (& ignition coils - LSx, MOD & HEMI) from terminal #30.
    The ECU pulses the ground side of the injectors to spray fuel.
    http://documents.holley.com/techlibr...10555rev17.pdf (Holley EFI Wiring Manual, Section 13 - Wiring Appendix)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  9. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Cabral View Post
    Since the system relay activates the fuel pump and powers the fuel injectors/ignition coils (LSx, MOD & HEMI) at terminal #30.
    I'd start multimeter testing there. First, verify the red/white switched 12V wire isn't losing power from the ignition switch.
    WHAT AM I TESTING FOR, RESISTANCE & CONTINUITY?


    Troubleshoot the system relay & its wiring. The system relay's coil is grounded at terminal #85 by the loose black wire.
    The ECU's (22 AWG red wire) energizes 12V the system relay coil at terminal #86,
    during the 5 second Fuel Pump Prime time, when cranking, and when the engine is running.
    CONFIRMED CONTINUITY on #85 (@ relay) but NO CONTINUITY between #86 (@ relay) and A2 on P1A. EDIT: Sorry, meant A2.

    There's a fuse next to the system relay, that powers the relay (14 AWG red wire) at terminal #87. CONFIRMED FUSE IS GOOD.

    The system relay activates the fuel pump, and powers the fuel injectors (& ignition coils - LSx, MOD & HEMI) from terminal #30.
    The ECU pulses the ground side of the injectors to spray fuel.
    https://www.holley.com/document/tech...10555rev16.pdf (Holley EFI Wiring Manual, Section 13 - Wiring Appendix)
    Should I cut A2 & 86 and jumper them?
    Last edited by octanejunkie; 12-22-2014 at 04:59 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by octanejunkie View Post
    Should I cut A2 & 86 and jumper them?
    If there's no continuity on that wire, repair or replace it.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

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