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Thread: Low Oil Pressure Safety Feature

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by turboborse View Post
    OK, I think I see what you did. Boost ICF ➡ Safety Setup (named Switched Trigger). Then the last screen you put up will be available. I'll try that after work tonight.
    I want a fuel kill for running out or getting low on gas, and a plugged filter/strainer causing low pressure. I ruined a pump one time from that.
    My last tuner also accidentally put 33 lbs of boost to my motor, and mangled the head gaskets.
    And as I mentioned, I overheated my motor recently from the high speed fan not coming on. The old engine has had a rough life.
    No...the second screen is available if you add the Input/Output ICF.
    Then you can add the named output into the Boost ICF safety section.
    -Scott
    Don't forget to check out progress on my Race Car:
    Project Blasphemy - 8.07 @ 171
    Low 8 Second Street Car

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by S2H View Post
    Instead I prefer to use injector duty cycle as my choice for fuel safety.
    If fuel pressure drops, the Holley will add fuel in closed loop, as fuel amount goes up, so will injector duty cycle.
    Thanks. That is an excellent idea for fuel safety! What is your reason for having the safety kill output active for 1 second before it triggers? (Bad things can happen in less time.)

    Also, I assume since you are using closed loop fuel control, that you have some limits set on how much fuel can be taken away, so a failed wideband O2 sensor can't take too much fuel away?

  3. #23
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    By adding it for 1 second, I eliminate small spikes or transients.
    Some things are normal in a racing engine, that are not so normal on a lower powered street vehicle, that has been hopped up a little bit.
    Also, I only put the oil pressure safety and fuel pressure safety in that screen for show & tell. I don't use either because my pressures on both swing quite far.
    I typically see 15-20 psi of oil pressure at idle, but I see over 80 at WOT.
    and I can't set it up by an rpm scale, so oil pressure safety is pointless on my setup.

    Same goes for fuel pressure, because I'm boost referenced, my fuel pressure swings widely as well.
    43 base pressure, 25-30 psi of boost, means I see 70 psi at full boost.
    And full vacuum on deceleration, I will see about 30 psi.
    Again...pointless to have a static fuel safety that way for me.
    This is why I use Injector Duty Cycle instead. If fuel pressure can't keep up with demand, I will see a rise in Injector Duty Cycle
    from the closed loop parameters (trying to add more fuel to compensate for the sudden lean condition caused by lack of fuel).

    I have lowered the limits on the Learning, but keep the limits pretty high at WOT on the closed loop correction.
    Once you have a pretty good Base Fuel Table, you can lower most of your Learn Table limits down to 10-15% with no real issues.
    At idle I lower it down to 5% to keep it more stable. I also lower the closed loop settings at idle so it can't correct too far.
    Last edited by S2H; 11-06-2014 at 09:53 PM.
    -Scott
    Don't forget to check out progress on my Race Car:
    Project Blasphemy - 8.07 @ 171
    Low 8 Second Street Car

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by S2H View Post
    By adding it for 1 second, I eliminate small spikes or transients.
    Yeah, momentary AFR spikes are possible, especially during acceleration enrichment periods.
    I also chose to setup a 1 sec Time condition (PWM Table), so my Rich & Lean AFR Error Outputs ignores these momentary AFR spikes.

    I have Rich & Lean AFR Error Outputs programmed to activate the Rev Limiter #2 (with Sensor Input Triggers - Average AFR, RPM, MAP, VSS, etc.), after a 1 sec deviation from the Target A/F Ratio. This is programmed in the Inputs/Outputs ICF (PWM Type), using the PWM Setup Output Table. "Time" as the X axis, and "Average AFR" as the Y axis (Type-Fixed, Frequency-1000, Table Units-Duty Cycle%). 100% is "on" & 0% is "off".

    My fail-safe outputs are wired to the Rev Limiter #2, and set to 1500 RPM (so I can still move the vehicle). It's set to 1500 RPM, so if activated, I can still idle & drive off to a safe area. An actual engine shutdown could create a hazardous situation. My truck is equipped with hydroboost brakes & ram-assist steering, so my power steering pump needs to remain operational for full steering and braking capabilities.

    Of course, it's fine to cut the ignition on a drag car. However, an unexpected engine shutdown on the street is dangerous.

    I have lowered the limits on the Learning, but keep the limits pretty high at WOT on the closed loop correction.
    Once you have a pretty good Base Fuel Table, you can lower most of your Learn Table limits down to 10-15% with no real issues.
    Everyone should do this when their Base Fuel Table is well tuned, and their Fuel Graph is smooth (all blended in).

    At idle I lower it down to 5% to keep it more stable. I also lower the closed loop settings at idle so it can't correct too far.
    My idle area of my Learned Compensation Limits is decreased down to 2%, for reasons mentioned in the link below:
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....8673#post48673 (Additional Information)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 232°-244° duration/.623" lift/114° LSA camshaft, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series FTI ported intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 200A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/3000 RPM converter, FPP aluminum driveshaft, FPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 MT tires.

  5. #25

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    Still don't understand what I need to do to setup all the stuff like you had it. Is this the screen I need?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    OK, here is what I have now. Do I need the type to be 12V OR GROUND?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Turbohorse; 11-08-2014 at 11:17 AM.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by turboborse View Post
    Still don't understand what I need to do to setup all the stuff like you had it. Is this the screen I need?
    Yes. Now Enable it, and Configure the criteria with the Sensor Input Triggers like S2H posted above (post #18).

    OK, here is what I have now. Do I need the type to be 12V OR GROUND?
    It can be +12V or Ground Type Output. It doesn't matter because it's just an EFI software based Output (not physically wired).
    Then select your custom "Safety Kill" output in the Boost Safety Setup - Switched Trigger (post #18).
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 232°-244° duration/.623" lift/114° LSA camshaft, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series FTI ported intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 200A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/3000 RPM converter, FPP aluminum driveshaft, FPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 MT tires.

  7. #27
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    One quick note:
    If you are naturally aspirated, with a 1 bar MAP sensor, you cannot use the Boost configuration without making a Custom 2 bar MAP sensor programmed to 1 bar MAP.
    Anytime you add the Boost ICF, the EFI software automatically assumes you have a 2 bar or higher MAP sensor, and will not allow you to select a 1 bar MAP sensor.

    So the way around it, is to use the Custom 2 bar MAP sensor setting, and just program it with the settings of the 1 bar MAP sensor you are using.
    0-5V, 10 kPa-105 kPa or whatever your sensor is.
    -Scott
    Don't forget to check out progress on my Race Car:
    Project Blasphemy - 8.07 @ 171
    Low 8 Second Street Car

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by S2H View Post
    One quick note:
    If you are naturally aspirated, with a 1 bar MAP sensor, you cannot use the Boost configuration without making a Custom 2 bar MAP sensor programmed to 1 bar MAP.
    Anytime you add the Boost ICF, the EFI software automatically assumes you have a 2 bar or higher MAP sensor, and will not allow you to select a 1 bar MAP sensor.
    Good reminder. I did this years ago (so the Boost ICF remains in my Global Folder) and I almost forgot about it:

    FYI: When adding the Boost ICF to a naturally aspirated application (1 bar MAP sensor), you must
    configure a "Custom 2 bar" MAP sensor (in Sensors ICF) for the actual 1 bar MAP sensor being used.
    This is because the EFI software automatically defaults the Global Folder to a 2 bar or higher MAP
    sensor, since it assumes it's a forced induction application. It's common practice for N/A applications.

    "Custom 2 bar" MAP Sensor Calibration Curve:
    10 - 105 MAP kPa (linear)
    0.00 - 5.00 Volts (linear)

    Boost ICF (Individual Configuration File):
    If the Boost menu icon (ICF) isn't already uploaded (added) to the top Toolbar, follow these instructions:
    (This same procedure applies to all the various Individual Configuration menu icons/items.)
    The Boost function is an "Individual Configuration" of the Holley EFI software.
    At top of screen, Click "Toolbox" and "Add Individual Config".
    At top of new window, select "Individual Configuration Library".
    At bottom of new window, select "Holley EFI Boost Config".
    Select "Boost" and open "Sample Config 1 Boost".
    The Boost icon will then be present at top of screen.
    Review Boost menu options to determine which apply to you.
    Ensure you initially set all seven of the Boost "Safety Setup" parameters to "Ignore".

    Inputs/Outputs ICF (Individual Configuration File):
    If the I/O menu icon (ICF) isn't already uploaded (added) to the top Toolbar, follow these instructions:
    (This same procedure applies to all the various Individual Configuration menu icons/items.)
    The "I/O" function is an "Individual Configuration" of the Holley EFI software.
    At top of screen, Click "Toolbox" and "Add Individual Config".
    At top of new window, select "Individual Configuration Library".
    At bottom of new window, select "Holley EFI Inputs/Outputs Config".
    Select "I/O" and open "Base Config - Blank.io".
    The "Inputs/Outputs" icon will then be present at top of screen.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 232°-244° duration/.623" lift/114° LSA camshaft, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series FTI ported intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 200A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/3000 RPM converter, FPP aluminum driveshaft, FPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 MT tires.

  9. #29

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    What actually happens when the boost limit is reached? Does it kill the motor? Does it rev limit?

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by turboborse View Post
    What actually happens when the boost limit is reached? Does it kill the motor? Does it rev limit?
    When the "Cut Ignition" action is invoked, normal control will resume when the TPS<10 for 3 seconds, OR engine speed falls below 2500 RPM.
    http://documents.holley.com/techlibr...r10628rev3.pdf (Holley EFI Boost Control Instructions - Page 9)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 232°-244° duration/.623" lift/114° LSA camshaft, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series FTI ported intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 200A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/3000 RPM converter, FPP aluminum driveshaft, FPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 MT tires.

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