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Thread: Help with tune?

  1. #21

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    Yes sir, I did change the WBO2 sensor style in the system, before I hooked it in. Paid too much for that thing.

    I did clear the Learn Table. I didn't have a good file. When I first started the car, it didn't have a transmission behind it, so it didn't get any load based fueling, and it only probably had 20 minuites of Learn time at that. Basically, what I've been starting/idling/revving the car on is the 480 HP LS2 Global Folder, reworked for my sensors, etc.

    One possible issue: It's OK to change the values on the X axis (vertical axis) for the kPa readings, as long as you have the proper MAP sensor selected, correct? I'm using the 3 bar GM MAP sensor, but I can still scale my axis such that the readings go from 0-104 kPa, right?

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by 360demonRT View Post
    It's OK to change the values on the X axis (vertical axis) for the kPa readings, as long as you have the proper MAP sensor selected, correct?
    Yes, but the X axis is the RPM scale (horizontal). The Y axis is the MAP/kPa scale (vertical).

    I'm using the 3 bar GM MAP sensor, but I can still scale my axis such that the readings go from 0-104 kPa, right?
    If you have a 3 bar MAP sensor, then that's what must be selected (Sensors ICF), even if the engine produces less boost.
    Conversely, the Fuel & Timing Table axes (kPa & RPM) should be reconfigured to the engine's actual capabilities. So, yes.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  3. #23

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    Thanks for all the help, it's much appreciated. Now I'm back to chasing exhaust leaks. Never thought 3' of pipe could have enough of a leak to cause this much issue, must not take a very big hole. If I find this to be the problem, I'll post up. Might help someone out with a similar problem.

  4. #24
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    This is a long shot, but you should also look at your Fuel Graph to ensure it's smooth.
    One aspect of viewing the Fuel Graph: It's better to zoom in, by highlighting segments of the Base Fuel Table, and click "Graph".
    This method offers much greater detail. Looking at the entire "Fuel Graph" will almost always look smooth, because it's not as magnified.

    The Timing Table must be flat at idle, meaning the same value used in the entire idle area (especially if using Idle Spark Control).
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....e-Tuning-Notes (EFI Idle Tuning Notes)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  5. #25

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    It's smooth. Lowest in the low kPa/low RPM corner, and rising to the opposite corner. The timing is set to 26° across all kPa until 1200 RPM. Almost positive it's an exhaust leak now. I honestly don't know how...I copper head gasket sprayed the manifold gaskets, Heli-Coiled (had a stripped hole) and torqued the piss out of the bolts all the ways I could think of, inside out, outside in and even straight across. Checking AFR each time. I stick welded over my pretty TIG welds, and even welded my V-band to the other one with about three passes because I can get it all out in one piece. I guess scrap this exhaust setup and start again. Man, it was so pretty too for my amateur skills. How big of an exhaust leak would it take to cause this much pain? I took three very long data logs and they all showed the same thing, quick rev brought down the AFR, slow pedal up a few hundred rpm or so wouldn't hardly budge it. Cam only has a couple degrees of overlap. I guess this shows that everything (sensor wise) is working good, but I just have an exhaust leak?

    Last edited by 360demonRT; 06-26-2014 at 11:38 PM.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by 360demonRT View Post
    How big of an exhaust leak would it take to cause this much pain?
    Your problem may not be caused by an exhaust leak. Have you tried tuning it in Open Loop mode? You may need someone to help you.
    If you choose to manually tune the Base Fuel Table, read the "Base Fuel Table Tuning Quick Guide" in the EFI software "Help" Contents.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  7. #27

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    I've not had closed loop enabled since I started having this issue. The AFR with the temporary exhaust setup I had, stayed where it should and the self Learn worked excellent for the 15-20 minutes I used it, before taking it apart to put the permanent setup on. It revved clean and was only making small percentage changes from the base tune I had in. It even read the AFR correctly at my idle rpm (<1000 RPM, I'm assuming it was correct because it wasn't blowing smoke or struggling trying to die). A datalog of the temporary setup is below to show I'm not making this stuff up lol. I'm going to go from scratch at my exhaust again after I order some new V-bands and exhaust pipe. If I can't get the AFR to read right and in turn the Learn function to operate, I'll sell it and get someone with HPT to tune it for me on a stock computer. If anything it should read better as the temporary setup was a piece of parts house 90° pipe about 1' long TOTAL with the WBO2 about 6" from the end of the setup.

    Are there any issues that could cause this thing to read stupid like it is OTHER than an exhaust leak at this point? You alluded that there may be something other than that, but we've covered about anything I could imagine. I've manually added fuel until it stumbles and dies (reads pretty damn lean still) and manually leaned it out until it doesn't act happy either. I played with it the other night until it would rev quick and pretty happily, at least by sound. I've added large amounts of fuel across the whole table and slowly fed it throttle past 1000 rpm and you can tell it's way too damn rich, but the sensor is only starting to try to get close to stoichiometric.

    One other thing I did between the temporary setup and the permanent one, was install an alternator (charges 14.4/5 volts at idle), old school true one-wire. Could this be messing with it somehow? Again, would make sense to me that it would make the computer operate better with a full charge, LOL. That's really the only thing I haven't tried... May take the belt off to see if the charging system is somehow making it squirrely. The charge wire isn't near the WBO2 wiring, and only passes within a couple inches of the IAC & TPS, which work fine.

    If it hadn't worked fine before I worked on the exhaust I could more easily believe it to be something else. But as much as I've done to this exhaust I'm having a hard time believing it's the exhaust too. I'm lost as is pretty evident. I plan on reading the base Fuel Table Tuning Quick Guide just because it may teach me something.
    EDIT: I have the computer mounted on the backside of my glove box (hard plastic), and unhooked all cables/wires from the ECU before I did any welding.
    Last edited by 360demonRT; 06-28-2014 at 06:43 AM.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by 360demonRT View Post
    Could this be messing with it somehow?
    Yes, it's possible.

    May take the belt off to see if the charging system is somehow making it squirrely.
    I agree with this logic. Do whatever you can to simulate that initial engine run. Try removing the alternator belt.


    The "302 Ford Turbo", "555 BBC Turbo" and "350-383ci Supercharged 14psi" are all 2 bar base calibrations.
    The "Turbo LSx 364ci 850HP 20PSI DBW 4L80E WM" and "383-434ci Turbocharged 30 psi Gas" are 3 bar base calibrations.
    Have you tried the "383-434ci Turbocharged 30 psi Gas" 3 bar MAP sensor base calibration?
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  9. #29

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    I'm wigging out now. I took off the alternator belt and BAM...freaking beautiful! Started it cold with no belt, registered a little lean, but not nearly as bad as with the belt. kPa was a little lower (pulling more vacuum). Then after it got warm, I turned on the Learn function. Instant 10 kPa reduction, idle like a queen, smooth as a babies butt! "Awesome" I said to myself, let it idle up to 200° and shut her down.

    Put the belt back on, turned the Learn off (didn't Learn very long), fire in the hole. Same crap as normal. Idled much worse, IAC went up to 2X%, you can see in the datalog comparison below what's up. I CHANGED NOTHING EXCEPT ADDING THE BELT! When the first set of lines goes nuts, it's when Learn is activated with THE BELT ON, when it smoothly transitions later in the graph that's when Learn is activated with BELT OFF. What does this mean? Charge wire isn't touching any wiring, goes behind the water pump and dips beside the oil pan and hooks to the starter. The battery is rear mounted. How can a charging system, charging properly (looks like it to me), make the Holley go nuts?


  10. #30

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    How is the Holley power ran? Charge wire must me too close to something?

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