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Thread: Help with tune?

  1. #11

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    Is this a poor location for the WBO2? Trying to figure what caused the failure. I read in the troubleshooting about penetrating oils, such as WD40 causing chemical reactions. When I painted my pipes, I sprayed some paint on the inside as well. Could this have killed it when the paint cooked off? Sensor was out when exhaust was painted. Only other idea is excessive heat, but it died as soon as it went Closed Loop, wouldn't have gotten that hot that fast.

    Also, the sensor will read yellow and say initiating sometimes? At first start, it will say warming, but how long should that take? I waited a couple minutes and it wouldn't go away. Most times it just reads dead lean. These are expensive and don't want to kill another one.

    Thanks for the help.


  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by 360demonRT View Post
    Is this a poor location for the WBO2? Trying to figure what caused the failure.
    Actually, if that section of pipe is angled slightly upward (looks like it is in the picture), then it's a good location. It could have been mounted a little further away from the exhaust manifold, but it's probably OK.

    Is the battery OK? Is the alternator/charging system working properly?
    Which ECU firmware version are you using? Ensure you're using the latest EFI software & ECU firmware (Link); it has "Oxygen Sensor Control Updates" (Link - HEFI_1589.eep).

    When I painted my pipes, I sprayed some paint on the inside as well. Could this have killed it when the paint cooked off?
    I've never heard of paint contaminating a WBO2 sensor.

    Also, the sensor will read yellow and say initiating sometimes? At first start, it will say warming, but how long should that take?
    At key-on (initializing) and heating, the WBO2 sensor "LED" status indicator is yellow.
    Then there shouldn't be any "LED" status indicator at all (especially when engine is running).
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....or-calibration (Additional Information)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  3. #13

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    Flooded the sensor with argon and it responded; went down smoothly until the argon licked off, got down in the 17.x range. Put it in the pipe and hit it and the video is what happened. Still think it's a bad sensor, loose wire or...? Don't wanna beat a dead horse, but don't wanna blow money if I don't have to.


  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by 360demonRT View Post
    Still think it's a bad sensor, loose wire or...?
    Which ECU firmware are you using? If your wiring is intact, and there aren't any exhaust leaks upstream of the WBO2 sensor, purchase a new WBO2 sensor.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  5. #15

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    2.2.0.3 I think. All wires are good, guess I'll pony up for a sensor.
    New NTK in route. I'll let ya know if it works, in case anyone else has this issue.
    Thanks for the help man, it's much appreciated.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by 360demonRT View Post
    2.2.0.3 I think.
    I asked for your ECU firmware version, not the EFI software version.

    Software & Firmware Versions:
    Software: click "Help" tab (top toolbar) & "About Holley EFI".
    Firmware: click "Sync With ECU" & "Get ECU Info" (Key-on/USB connected).
    The latest software & firmware can be downloaded here:
    https://www.holley.com/support/resou...Fuel_Injection (Holley EFI Technical Library)
    https://www.holley.com/document/tech...9r10546rev.pdf (HP & Dominator Quick Start Guide)
    https://www.holley.com/document/tech...g_firmware.pdf (How To Update ECU Firmware)
    Before updating firmware, ensure the current Global Folder is saved somewhere, since it will be erased from the ECU.

    Latest V2 EFI Software & ECU Firmware:
    The latest V2 software can be downloaded here: https://www.holley.com/support/resou...Fuel_Injection
    Read the 199R10632rev5 PDF document for a "V2 Software Update Overview" (in "Holley EFI V2 Instructions").
    Be sure to successfully install the new V2 software, before installing the ECU firmware (read "V2 Update Instructions").
    Ensure the Holley EFI software is not open and the ECU is not powered on/connected when installing the new software.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  7. #17

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    Done, nothing seems to have changed. Got my new NTK WBO2 sensor in. Only reads 27.x in clean air? Seems to want to read more realistic however. When I turn the Learn function back on, it sputters, fishes and dies. Only when it tries to get close to my requested AFR of 13.5 idle. So, that's a far cry better than idling at 35.x and it actually reads pretty close, seems like I had a tandem bad sensor and exhaust leak combo. Really getting tired of fooling with this car. This car has a big cam in it, how much vacuum should it be pulling at idle? Going to try to chase exhaust leaks tomorrow.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by 360demonRT View Post
    Got my new NTK WBO2 sensor in.
    If you had the Bosch WBO2 sensor before, did you change the "Wideband O2 Sensor" in Engine Parameters (before connecting the new sensor)?

    Only reads 27.x in clean air?
    Yes, the NTK WBO2 sensor only displays up to about 29:1 AFR. The Bosch WBO2 sensor displays up to 35:1 AFR.
    After turning the engine off, exhaust gases need to dissipate before seeing these full lean AFRs (key-on/engine-off).

    When I turn the Learn function back on, it sputters, fishes and dies.
    A failed WBO2 sensor will corrupt the Learn Table. Clear the Learn Table (if the percentages are erroneous from their nominal values), or load the last "known to be good" Global Folder.

    This car has a big cam in it, how much vacuum should it be pulling at idle?
    Large race camshafts will cause the WBO2 sensor(s) to read a false lean condition at idle & low RPM, due to their significant amount of overlap. This also happens if there isn't a sufficient length of exhaust piping beyond the WBO2 sensor(s), due to the WBO2 sensor being near an open exhaust pipe (ambient air contamination). To rectify this, enter the Closed Loop Parameters (in System Parameters), and set the "Enable RPM to Enter Closed Loop" high enough to ignore this condition. You'll then need to manually tune the idle area in Open Loop mode.

    Going to try to chase exhaust leaks tomorrow.
    Yes, there can't be any exhaust leaks upstream of the WBO2 sensor.

    Which ECU firmware version are you running? This is the fourth time I've asked you this.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  9. #19

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    Hopefully this is the info about the firmware you needed. If this isn't the problem I'll pass the issue off on a warped manifold flange, LOL. I held a straight edge against it, and either end of the manifold is pulled back to make a U shape, probably 1/16th inch. Looks like that much would draw up easily.

    Sorry for not getting that info, I'd convinced myself it was an exhaust leak. I don't think it's a problem with huge overlap, it only has a couple degrees of overlap. When you rev it a little, it still fluctuates and AFRs sway, and it pops & cracks & bucks & stumbles and all kinds of crap.

    Thanks a lot for the help. Sorry I'm difficult, just don't understand the EFI tuning thing super well. This is really my first build of any kind, past bolting on a set of headers. LOL!


  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by 360demonRT View Post
    Hopefully this is the info about the firmware you needed.
    Yes, that's the latest ECU firmware.
    If you had the Bosch WBO2 sensor before, did you change the "Wideband O2 Sensor" in Engine Parameters (before connecting the new sensor)?
    A failed WBO2 sensor will corrupt the Learn Table. Clear the Learn Table (if the percentages are erroneous from their nominal values), or load the last "known to be good" Global Folder.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

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